The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 28, 2010, 03:52 PM   #1
MikeGoob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2006
Posts: 749
ATF busts shipment of airsoft guns--said they can be converted to machine guns?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rEuTwYALho

ATF said they did tests to verify they could be converted to "Military grade weapons" ??

Is this true?
MikeGoob is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 04:10 PM   #2
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,424
Are you questioning whether or not the News Team is real, or what? What is it that you didn't understand about the news cast?
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 04:12 PM   #3
MikeGoob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2006
Posts: 749
It seems ludicrous to suggest that a plastic gun can be made to shoot bullets (or full auto). Or for that to be a reason to confiscate them. Ive seen these toys before, are they that dangerous?
MikeGoob is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 04:31 PM   #4
DiscoRacing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2008
Location: milton, wv
Posts: 3,640
would be nice if you could convert one into a real gun.... i would have saved aprox 1100 bucks on my Deagle by getting the plastic one and coverting it..
DiscoRacing is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 04:41 PM   #5
noyes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Posts: 1,032
Haaaa Haaaaaa

Some agents are going to need reconstructive facial surgery if they try Real ammo in those............
noyes is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 04:46 PM   #6
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
Absolute rubbish on the part of our friend at the office of fine party materials...There is no likelihood that those guns are built with upper and lower that have AR type attaching points.

Even less likely that the barrel would handle the pressures of powder discharge. Nor would any other component.

Did I mention that these guns are are designed to take a plastic ball and hurl it out the barrel?

Does anyone else doubt that they have a chamber suited to even take a .223/5.56 cartridge? Go ahead and machine one to do this and fire it... Lemme know how that works for you or have your next of kin come on here and post the results...

On second thought, I think the Taiwanese shops have just found a way to put AR15/M-16's into our hands at a drastically reduced price. This is gonna put a bunch of American rifle makers out o' bidnezz.
I need to order me one... Finally an AR even my uneducated redneck butt can afford. Now to find affordable ammo for my new lead slinger!
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 05:08 PM   #7
stargazer65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 761
These dangerous weapons have reaked much havoc on soldiers, just ask this guy:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Toy-Soldier-Posters.jpg (19.8 KB, 638 views)
__________________
"I assert that nothing ever comes to pass without a cause." Jonathan Edwards
stargazer65 is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 05:32 PM   #8
highvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2010
Location: Powhatan VA
Posts: 633
It's been a slow year at the ATF too!
__________________
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain

"I have opinions of my own 'strong opinions' but I don't always agree with them."--George Bush
highvel is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 05:38 PM   #9
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
Another point of note was the fact that the "party favors" agent said "military grade weapon" did ya'll know beer burns the sinus and nasal region pretty bad when it is ejected at high velocity when hearing such statements about Taiwanese toys?

I bet the goobermint could save loads of dough by buying these and converting them for our folks in the desert!
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 06:13 PM   #10
noyes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Posts: 1,032
ATF Agent shoots himself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADb3NyYlSA
noyes is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 06:27 PM   #11
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
Yes that vid has been around for quite a few years but with so many copies on the www. why pick the one posted by "aryanbrother"? With the whole "talk about killin' 2 birds with one stone" thing?
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 06:55 PM   #12
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 26, 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,649
Hey, stargazer65!

Careful you don't let your kid take that guy to school, or he'll have a criminal record for life!
__________________
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.
Standing Wolf is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 07:01 PM   #13
KLRANGL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 958
Actually guys....

I have been big into airsoft for a number of years, and they have these new rifles coming out lately that use a gas blowback (GBB) mechanism. These GBB M4s have internal parts that are almost identical to a real M4. Now the airsoft upper wouldn't be able to fire real ammunition, but I am wondering if it is possible that a real AR upper could be modified to fit the airsoft lower receiver with a full auto control group... Watch the following vid, and tell me it doesn't look just like a real M4 lower...

The relevant part is at 0:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh7xOJM_zss

Now this news story apparently happened a year ago, so I'm thinking that if there were any real concerns with a conversion, we'd all know about it by now...
__________________
And it's Killer Angel... as in the book

Last edited by KLRANGL; February 28, 2010 at 07:07 PM.
KLRANGL is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 09:15 PM   #14
highvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2010
Location: Powhatan VA
Posts: 633
That does look like everything was there and in maybe the right place!
__________________
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.--Mark Twain

"I have opinions of my own 'strong opinions' but I don't always agree with them."--George Bush
highvel is offline  
Old February 28, 2010, 11:23 PM   #15
azredhawk44
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,465
Yup, my first thought was that the lower was precisely enough made that a real upper could be put on. I initially just thought "unserialed, untraceable AR" but someone else here made the leap to full-auto capability as well.
azredhawk44 is offline  
Old March 1, 2010, 05:51 PM   #16
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,967
Quote:
Careful you don't let your kid take that guy to school, or he'll have a criminal record for life!
Not in our schools. My son used army guys like that on his valentine box he is 7, he had the theme "Act of love" and his cousin just got back from Iraq (Marine) so he used this theme and I was kinda thinking he may get in trouble but not a bit. Thank God for Iowa country schools some folks do have common sense...

Funny bout them air soft guns.
markj is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 01:44 AM   #17
C Philip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 784
Confiscating something due to its potential to become illegal doesn't make any sense whatsoever. That would be like raiding the shoe store since all those shoe laces could be made into machine guns . Or impounding cars that were capable of speeding, arresting women because they could be converted into prostitutes, or raiding grocery stores and hardware stores for selling materials you could use to cook an illegal drug or make an explosive device, etc. I don't think this would hold up in court if the owner of the shipment pursued the issue.
C Philip is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 07:05 AM   #18
stargazer65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 761
Quote:
Careful you don't let your kid take that guy to school, or he'll have a criminal record for life!
Not an issue in our school either. Toy soldiers are fine. Our teachers are encouraged to open or concealed carry, and sometimes the students take firearm safety and appreciation class where they can bring their own guns.
__________________
"I assert that nothing ever comes to pass without a cause." Jonathan Edwards
stargazer65 is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 07:11 AM   #19
rattletrap1970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2009
Location: Torrington, CT. USA
Posts: 299
Stargazer65,

I live in Connecticut and was wondering, when you say the teachers are encouraged to open and concealed carry, do you mean at school? Or in their private lives? I was under the belief that guns were not allowed on school property.
Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great to see shooting sports, firearm safety, and appreciation of firearms brought back to schools. Or did I miss some sarcasm there and you Home School?
rattletrap1970 is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 07:22 AM   #20
stargazer65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 761
^
Yes, I was being sarcastic because we homeschool. You are correct that guns are not allowed on school property. Hopefully no confusion created on my part.
__________________
"I assert that nothing ever comes to pass without a cause." Jonathan Edwards
stargazer65 is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 07:36 AM   #21
rattletrap1970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2009
Location: Torrington, CT. USA
Posts: 299
LOL, yeah I figured (after I asked the question, little slow on the uptake with so little coffee in me yet).
rattletrap1970 is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 08:05 AM   #22
alloy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2008
Posts: 1,931
Those cwazy Tiawanese...flooding our country with unserialed full auto lowers of our own design, at a competitive airsoft price point.
__________________
Quote:
The uncomfortable question common to all who have had revolutionary changes imposed on them: are we now to accept what was done to us just because it was done?
Angelo Codevilla
alloy is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 04:35 PM   #23
scud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2000
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 1,094
it would take almost a entire new gun thing to render a airsoft gun into a working model that would fire live ammo.
scud is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 04:50 PM   #24
KLRANGL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 958
Quote:
it would take almost a entire new gun thing to render a airsoft gun into a working model that would fire live ammo.
With respect to an AEG, you are correct. But with a GBB rifle, at face value you are not.

But....

I did see this on the retailer-in-question's website, I found this new release by them:
http://airsoftoutletnw.com/index.php...-Standard.html
Quote:
Now we at Airsoft Outlet Northwest, being the rational individuals we are, went out and had a gunsmith check the true compatibility of these replicas and found the following information:

* The WE TTI M4's lack any sort of functional gas tube which is integral to an AR15's operation
* The upper receiver of an AR15 fits onto the lower of the WE TTI M4
* The stock trigger pack in the WE TTI cannot strike the firing pin of a AR15 bolt

* The body of the WE TTI lower is several mils thinner than an AR15 lower, and shims would be needed for any AR trigger pack to work
* The trigger pack of an AR15 appears to be able to fit onto the lower receiver of a WE TTI M4, one of the AR15 trigger pack retaining pins is impossible to insert without major modification, and the hammer isn't operable with the WE TTI lower.


So essentially these Airsoft replicas cannot even operate an AR15 trigger pack without heavy modification with a precise tooling system operated by someone who knows the specific measurements to drill and tap the WE TTI lower receiver.

To me this doesn't sound like it's feasible within "a short period of time".
So apparently it is not as easy as it appears at face value to convert a GBB M4 lower to function a real steal M4 upper
__________________
And it's Killer Angel... as in the book
KLRANGL is offline  
Old March 2, 2010, 04:51 PM   #25
GunsAreGood
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2010
Posts: 300
The only way I can believe that it would convert is to put a real upper on a toy lower. Even so I would not be the one standing behind it pulling the trigger.
__________________
From my cold dead hands

If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns
GunsAreGood is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13315 seconds with 8 queries