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Old February 24, 2010, 10:01 AM   #1
Tenshi
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Length of Pull

So I've heard the general consensus for measuring for correct length of pull by shouldering the shotgun and measuring between your last thumb joint and the tip of your nose, the problem is the distance that's recommended is all over the place. One place I read says between 1" and 1.25", another says between 1.5" and 2", still another states it as "the width of 3 fingers" Is there a correct way? And how does a gunsmith measure your LOP when fitting a stock?
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Old February 24, 2010, 10:11 AM   #2
hogdogs
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The redneck method I learned was to rest the stock on your upper arm at the elbow. A proper fit was if the grip and trigger were in good, comfortable location for use with the gun in that position. That is the closest I ever got to "fitted"
I would like to see a nice gun being fitted to a buyer.
Brent
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Old February 24, 2010, 10:31 AM   #3
TangoMcBlasty
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Guess I'm a redneck cuz that's the method I use to fit shotguns too!

My girlfriend's Wingmaster was too "heavy" for her to handle. It turns out that the pull was just too long for her. It put the weight of the gun too far forward of her body. She had to almost fully extend her support arm to grasp the fore end. We used the method described above to shorten the stock and now it's perfect!

The method we used was a little cruder though. We just rested the end of the butt stock in the crook of her elbow and make sure she could put her index finger though the trigger guard. It's not fine gunsmithing or craftsmanship but it works!
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Old February 24, 2010, 10:39 AM   #4
oneounceload
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Quote:
And how does a gunsmith measure your LOP when fitting a stock?
Gunsmiths are not always stock fitters, just as stock fitters are not always gunsmiths.

There's more to fitting a shotgun than LOP - there's drop at heel, drop at comb, pitch, toe in or out, cast on or off, etc.

Here's an article:

http://members.aye.net/~bspen/fit.html

A fitter typically uses something looking like this:



Another article:

http://www.shotgunlife.com/Shotguns/shotgun-fit.html
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Old February 24, 2010, 12:12 PM   #5
Tenshi
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@oneounceload: I'm aware that there's more to fitting a shotgun, but I'm asking about LOP because that's the one factor that I'm planning to alter on my own personal firearm. The weight is too out front and I feel like I'm having to stretch too far to the forearm. Also, the butt catches on my clothes as I mount it to my shoulder... the only way for me to avoid this is the stretch my arms out unnaturally as I'm pulling it up to my shoulder. Trying the "rule of thumb" method, my nose is a full 3-4 inches away from my thumb... I'm planning to trim a bit off of the stock, but I want to be sure of the measurement before I do any cutting which is why I posted this.

All of the other factors feel about right.
The pitch doesn't cause the butt to slide up or down with recoil, it stays where it should.
As with most guns sold nowdays, mine has no cast and this doesn't seem to be a problem for me, my eye is in line with the sights horizontally and I don't feel like I need to press my cheek hard into the stock to acheive this. I do need to raise my comb a bit as I have ghost ring sights on my gun on a picatinny rail, so it is a bit above the rib and I find that my cheek weld has to be a little too high up to line up the sights.
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Old February 24, 2010, 12:37 PM   #6
BigJimP
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OneOunce gave you the best description he had .... the problem is, there isn't an "exact" way to do this. Some of it comes down to how the gun feels in your hands. I think if you cut the stock to about 2" from your thumb / and try it out ...before cutting another 1/2" you'll get it figured out. Then go another 1/2" if you need to. If it isn't quite right / you can always compensate with a different thickness of recoil pad too ( either slimmer or thicker ).

The other thing I might suggest - talk to some guys at your local range / see if you can mount their guns / assuming someone has a shorter length of pull than your gun - and see how it feels. If that isn't practical / go to a used gun shop / where they have a lot of guns ...take a tape measure, measure the length of pulls ...and see what feels right.

Most of us, as we mount a shotgun, have a "natural" move forward, then up and back, as we mount the gun ....and I have the same move in the field that I have in Skeet, Sporting clays, etc ....or at least it works for me. Going to a different style recoil pad / a little slicker or something - might help keep the gun from hanging up / or just practicing your mount at home 25 times a nite will help as well.

I went thru a lot of shotguns before I really got my length of pull dialed in / to the point where I know exactly how I want a gun set up ....and my length of pull doesn't change for a 10 lb 32" barreled Trap Gun O/U .....to a 28" O/U Field gun at 7 1/2 lbs ....but there are things that make it feel better ( the type of recoil pad, is there a palm swell on the gun, the style of the forened...)..
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Old February 24, 2010, 01:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
I'm planning to trim a bit off of the stock, but I want to be sure of the measurement before I do any cutting which is why I posted this.
Many stock folks use special jigs to keep the stock in alignment when they cut. If you don't, then you may change the pitch of the stock.

All I'm saying is that there is a lot more to this than firing up the bandsaw and going to town. There are plenty of articles using Google to guide you.
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Old February 24, 2010, 02:21 PM   #8
zippy13
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Tenshi,
IMHO, you can't add a rail and a ghost ring and expect the stock to be close to fitting correctly. Like it, or not, you may need more than just a LOP adjustment. You didn't mention, how did the stock fit before the sight alteration? Also, what model of gun, what model of stock (is it the original)? Since you LOP seems so far off, what is you dress shirt sleeve length?
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Old February 24, 2010, 05:28 PM   #9
Tenshi
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@ BigJim: Good advice, when I do it, I'll definitely do a little at a time and not the entire amount I want to shave off at once.

@oneounceload: I found some really good videos on youtube lastnight that went in depth on how to resize the stock without altering the pitch and even to reshaping the recoil pad afterwards and polishing everything up. I'll add them here for everyone's benefit:

On Drop

Shortening the buttstock


Installing a recoil pad

Finishing up a recoil pad

@zippy:The gun came from the manufacturer with the rail and sight, I haven't altered the gun a bit. It's a Mossberg 590-A1 SPX... THIS ONE
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Old February 24, 2010, 06:48 PM   #10
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Isn't that model a synthetic stock?.....
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Old February 24, 2010, 07:29 PM   #11
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Tenshi,
Congratulations, you've got the new model, Item #50771, 9-shot. With the extra capacity tube and the bayonet, it's no wonder it seems a little front heavy. According to the Mossberg spec sheet, it shares a common stock with other tach models with a LOP of 13 7/8". This is a little on the short side for many average shooters. I assume it's sized with the possibility of protective gear in mind. Other 500 stocks are 14 and 14-1/2" LOP. For a shorter stock there's the adjustable turkey stock or the Bantam's 13" stock. Unfortunately, Mossberg didn't raise the stock when they elevated the sights. Oneounceload commented about your synthetic stock because it can't be shortened in the same manner as ones in wood as shown in your referenced video.
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Old February 25, 2010, 01:29 AM   #12
noyes
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Cutting the Stock of a Mossberg 590A1

Box of Truth

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us
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Old February 25, 2010, 09:06 AM   #13
Tenshi
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@oneounceload: its synthetic, but the recoil pad mounting points go back wayyyy into the stock just for the purpose of being able to shorten it. Looks like it was well thought out for a synthetic stock

@zippy: With the bayonet, its definitely front heavy lol, but I leave that off, unless game animals start carrying self defense weapons or that zombie apocalypse everyone always talks about breaks out lol
I think I'll keep shooting it for a few months and see if I get used to the length before I make any changes. Yeah, it does annoy me a little that they didn't raise the stock for the sights, but I'll probably just pick up a cheek pad to solve that issue. I know the problem of most synthetic stocks having the mount points just at the end so I was expecting to hear that, but I've taken off the recoil pad and they do go all the way up to the wrist of stock (I'm assuming so that the stock can indeed be shortened) I'll hold off for now and see how the gun feels a few months down the road. Just want to get as much info as possible in case I do decide to. I obsessively research anything before I do it myself. The more I know the better.

@noyes: Thanks for the link, I came across that one myself a few days ago as well... good info there. Definitely nice to see that someone else has done it successfully on the same stock.

The more I'm around these forums, the more I feel lucky that there are so many people in the know here. Definitely a big help to have everyone here available for advice and experience. I learn more and more every time I'm here. Its usually hard to come by nice and intelligent people on a forum, so I'm glad I found this one
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Old February 25, 2010, 11:11 AM   #14
zippy13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenshi
The more I'm around these forums, the more I feel lucky that there are so many people in the know here. Definitely a big help to have everyone here available for advice and experience. I learn more and more every time I'm here. Its usually hard to come by nice and intelligent people on a forum, so I'm glad I found this one
You're quite right, Tenshi, this is a cozy little corner of the WWW. The majority of the members are here to share information: The newbies are looking for advice to best spend their hard earned dollars on their first shotgun. The newer shooters are sharing their experiences and looking for ways to improve. And, the gray beard crowd is here to help the new guys avoid the common mistakes, and pick-up a few new tricks along the way. We may have our differences, and tease each other from time to time; but, there's little needless bickering nor obnoxious trolling. We can all thank the diligent staff for our smooth sailing.
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Old February 25, 2010, 11:17 AM   #15
hogdogs
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needless bickering nor obnoxious trolling
HEY!!! I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK!!!
Brent
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