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Old February 23, 2010, 09:40 PM   #26
LateNightFlight
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Of course a even stable pit bull can be good with kids, (I don't recomend that though )
I don't recommend them either. They're good with kids until they're suddenly not. I still feel a little sick when I think about a 3 year old "best friend" of a pit bull that was trashed by the dog... and I mean killed even though the mother was right there when it happened, fighting for the child's life. (Geesh, I think I have a little post traumatic stress from that call.:barf

If you ever wanted a gun dog that doubles as a guard dog, though - hands down, Chesapeake. They're super hard chargers, too. (Hard chargers and hard headed.) But that's a dog that really sheds. One day I was determined to get my Chessie immaculate, but no matter what, I couldn't get it done. I don't know if it's even possible to get a Chessie completely brushed out. And they have a slight tendency to be dog aggressive, especially if they've had a bad experience with another dog.

Can I vote again? Lab!
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Old February 23, 2010, 11:44 PM   #27
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Check out the chesapeake...
Good Idea! Chesapeakes were my grandpa's choice. He was a waterfoul hunting expert. Not great with kids though.
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Old February 24, 2010, 01:59 AM   #28
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lab puppy $500
3 new crates(lab destroyed) $375
new carpet(lab destroyed) $1500
3 new doors(lab destroyed) $400
replace blinds in new house $800
Monthly separation anxiety disorder meds $12/month

now 10 y/o lab(family member)....priceless!

She is not a hunter(neither am I, although I would like to be) just a house dog. Very very trainable, once we figured out the S.A.D issue(vet actually recommended a dog psychologist!) GREAT dog! Easily trained, extremely smart and people friendly. That said, she is weird, as labs go, and is very protective of family/property but is VERY friendly when properly introduced. These idiosyncratic behaviors may be breeder related as we
bought from an individual, but from what I have researched, not way out there

And as another poster pointed out...the tail... holy crap that thing is deadly!

We have had 3 German Shepards, another great dog, but labs will be with us from now on!
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Old February 24, 2010, 02:37 AM   #29
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I don't recommend them either. They're good with kids until they're suddenly not.
I personally think that a pitbull is as good if not better of a choice for a waterfowl dog than any of the dogs we have been discussing in this thread. I know that they are not naturally good swimmers like a lab for instance but if they swim regularly they can be very proficient swimmers. Pitbulls are also very good with children. I used to take mine to the elementary school and she would be getting pulled on and stepped on by 30 kids and never showed a sign of aggression. OTHER DOGS DO MAUL CHILDREN AND PEOPLE they just don't publicize it.
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Old February 24, 2010, 12:01 PM   #30
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Been eying a Brittany Spaniel for a while, but I've also heard that some are great, some aren't in water.
My Brit falls into the "I am not going in that water if I have any choice in the matter" category.

Depends on how far off the beaten path you want to go

Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/novascotiaducktolling.htm

Portuguese Water Dog
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/portuguesewaterdog.htm

Or a Springer Spaniel
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/englishspringerspaniel.htm

I had a Springer growing up that would swim in the lake forever. He would watch a duck fly over, and jump in to follow it, then see an another one and start following that. Had enough sense to come back to the dock before he drown himself.
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Old February 24, 2010, 03:21 PM   #31
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I personally think that a pitbull is as good if not better of a choice for a waterfowl dog than any of the dogs we have been discussing in this thread.
Just when you think you’ve seen or heard it all.

Bwaaaa-hahahahaha! Surrender your credibility much?

Quote:
Pitbulls are also very good with children.
Fact: Pit bull type dogs kill more children than all other breeds combined. Here’s a couple of fresh headlines: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 – that’s today, BTW – ‘5-Day Old Infant Killed by Family Pit Bull.’ Sunday, February 21, 2010 – 3 days ago - 3-Year Old Mauled to Death by Pit Bull Type Dog in Ocala. This child fatality was at a breeder’s home whose web site says, “We are working toward a personal goal in our breeding program where the emphasis is on a temperament that is above all, people and CHILD FRIENDLY." (Oh, the irony! Epic FAIL!) They were actually American Bulldogs, but these share the pit classification. 02/20/10 – 4 days ago - This is one of my favorites because the owner is a breed advocate, and anti-BSL (breed specific legislation) activist whose myspace pages feature her “sweet” pit bulls. “Mine will only lick you to death.” The headline her dogs generated: 37-Year Old Philadelphia Woman Killed by Mother's Pit Bulls.

Or you might live in one of roughly 500 communities that has banned or restricts pit bulls. Or you might have to hunt all over just to find an insurance carrier that will allow a pit bull on your home owner’s policy. And if you’re a new LE recruit, there’s a chance you’ll be informed in academy that you have roughly an equal chance of shooting a berzerking pit bull as you will a felon in the course of your career – your department may even have specific policies and protocols for containment and dispatch. I think it was Lincoln, NE, whose fire department even gave their companies special training and put catch poles on their rigs to deal with pit bulls. Their first time out, they killed the damn thing - choked it to death. (Gotta love it!)

Now, there’s even a website dedicated to the victims of pit bulls. Check out Dogsbite.org, then show me the web site for victims of labs, chessies, goldens, shorthairs, brits, spaniels, etc., etc.

Oh well… gotta love public boards. Somebody looking for suggestions for a waterfowl dog and somebody says, “Pit bull.”

LMAO!
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Old February 24, 2010, 04:25 PM   #32
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Labs all the way.. My lab is my hunting buddy and a house dog, but really has the best of both in him.. I have to put him on a leash when i take him in my back yard because of our deer problem, other wise if he catchs one its gonna be game over for the deer.. whats crazy is the dam dog is the sweetist thing in the world.. you think he was a lap dog the way he acts with the family
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Old February 24, 2010, 04:57 PM   #33
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Somebody looking for suggestions for a waterfowl dog and somebody says, “Pit bull.”
I once had a pit that hunted, was late 70s. Would not ever recommend one now tho, dont like to recommend any dog as they all can bite. I hunt German Shorthairs now and they do fine on waterfowl.

Pits used to be Americas dog, people got involved and this breed is not one to run.

Cockers used to be number one as far as people getting bit.

Look to www.gundogforum.com for advise on hunting dogs.
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Old February 24, 2010, 07:12 PM   #34
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I hunt German Shorthairs now and they do fine on waterfowl.
I cut my teeth along side a German Shorthair before I was even big enough to carry a gun. I think they're wonderful dogs and they'll do waterfowl. But I think their breeding to range and point can make them a little unsettled about sitting quietly in a blind. (Heck, a lot of retrievers have the same problem. ) But their short coat isn't well suited to sitting in the cold. I did hunt with one where we were out in the water. After about an hour, he shivered so violently that we had to bring him in. On the other hand, we hunted some warm days in Cali where the labs were panting and dragging at half speed, when it would have been a perfect situation for a shorthair.

I don't know the last time I saw a cocker in the field. I honestly can't think of one. And cockers suffered from something called 'cocker rage;' they were as likely to bite their owners as anyone else. This is a documented genetic defect within some lines of the breed. But that's a bite... a puncture, a scratch or a bruise. When considering aggression in dogs, I think it's important to make a distinction between a 'bite' and a 'mauling.' All dogs bite, but when was the last time you heard of a cocker taking their owners arm off? I've been nipped and bitten by a few retrievers, but I was in a retriever club and have in one way or another come in contact with hundreds of dogs at training days and trials.

Quote:
Pits used to be Americas dog...
Some of the folks at Dogsbite.org researched this claim. They researched 'dogs/puppies for sale' ads throughout a broad range of history. A variety of dogs have swapped through the #1 position as their popularity waxed and waned before arriving where it is today - labs. But whether they were called pit bulls, Staffordshire terrier, or any associated version of a pit type dog, they never achieved anything close to favored breed status.

Nobody has mentioned ‘Pointing Labs,’ a group of Labradors just the same, but selected and bred for their instinctive pointing ability. I had a lab that, out of the blue, started pointing on pheasant when she was about 3, but was faulted by the old timers for not simply flushing. Man, I really wish some of these pointing lab guys had been there to bail me out from the disapproval. I would have switched camps pretty quick had I known these guys existed!
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Old February 24, 2010, 09:07 PM   #35
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LateNightFlight. I am sorry that you are another person turned off of pitbulls. I know you knew a child that got mauled and I am very sorry to hear that and even though i don't know you i really do feel sorry for your loss. I don't blame you for not liking the breed with your experience but let me just say that the media does portray them to be worse than they are just like gun owners being murderers. we all know that it is not true for the mass of us but there are a few bad apples. You are doing the same thing to the pitbulls that the anti-gun activist are doing to the honest hardworking gun owners. I do not want to turn this into a never ending debate so I understand what you believe and I am fine with that.
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Old February 24, 2010, 09:19 PM   #36
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"American Water Spaniel"....bred for market hunting for their size.All Chocolate Brown,and not over 50 lbs.Only spaniel with a long tail.I had one in the 80's and he made a fine retriever as well as a friendly loving dog. The breed is one of the only few American Kennel Club breeds(All American).You also can get a small breed female lab,which makes a great retriever.I trained all my dogs myself,including a Chessy.Labs and Spaniels are easy to train.Check the AKC for breeders of the American water spaniel.They used these dogs in the rivers up around the Great Lakes,Wisconsin etc. Good luck! My reg. name was "Paul's Buster Brown"
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Old February 24, 2010, 09:21 PM   #37
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Lab

My current is the third Lab that has owed me. When hunting the Labs seem to gang up, one of us has 4 and the other none. A quality food will end the shedding, Blue Buffalo does the trick for me.
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Old February 24, 2010, 09:23 PM   #38
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Pit Bull! We used them to catch wild boars in the southern swamps.Walkers,Black & Tans,to bay,and pits to catch.
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Old February 25, 2010, 01:47 AM   #39
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GunsAreGood; nothing personal... not meaning to go pit bull on anyone. I am in my day-to-day character very much the labrador in terms of good will and friendliness. To clarify, the 3 year old that was killed was not my only pit bull call as a medic. I ultimately accumulated decades of experience with victims of pit bulls dating back to my first clinical rotations through ICU. What’s more, my negative experiences are not limited to my time as a medic. I have met some nice pit bulls, but they were totally forgettable if not down right ugly.

I don't think the comparison to anti-gunners is fair. In fact, I think in communities where pit bulls are allowed, every citizen should be mandated to own some kind of pit killing weapon. 911 will never be as fast as an armed citizen acting to end an attack in progress. If the mother of the boy who was mauled by her pit had a gun nearby, there's at least a chance that child would be alive today. And while I can own a gun, I can’t own a machine gun. I’m allowed to drive a deadly weapon, but I can’t drink and drive. Risk is everywhere, but there are cut off points when the risk is unreasonable. The definition of insanity is allowing a particular breed to fail again, and again, and again.

The mantra is, "Punish the deed, not the breed!" But when is the last time you saw anyone held responsible on par with the punishments applied for gun crime? Where are the pit bull groups when these dogs attack? Which pit bull group has spent the big bucks and lobbied hard to promote harsh owner penalties for these attacks? By contrast, the NRA has always pushed for stronger penalties for gun crimes. There is no comparison between pit bulls and gun rights, much less an amendment assuring anyone the right to own a dangerous breed, or a lion, or a bear. No gun has ever broken out of a safe and gone on a killing spree, is your pit bull locked up in a gun safe?

Speaking of guns and pit bulls, did you know there’s a new blog dedicated to the topic of shooting pit bulls? I kid you not. Step up – be a hero – get blogged about – all you have to do is roll a pit bull! http://shootthat****er.blogspot.com/ (The link won't work because of the language filter. I'm sure you can figure it out.)

With regards to the media, look at all the fuss over Toyota accelerators – network to network, live coverage, politicians grandstanding hour after hour, day after day. Capitol Hill is on fire over some gas pedals and the media blitz is on. But what is the reality? Ten years of Toyota accelerator issues doesn’t amount to what pit bulls do in just one year. I’m sure the media would have reported the three recent killings by dog no matter what breed they were. I get that you don’t like the news, but do you really think there’s some big bad media conspiracy against your dog?

Do yourself a favor and make your next dog an awesome gun dog. Separate yourself from the dog fighters, druggies, thugs and assorted low lifes associated with pits. Stand apart from the attention seeking narcissists that feel it is their duty to counter balance the negatives by participating in a bogus mission to set the public straight about this "misunderstood breed." Quit worrying about people rolling their eyes behind your back or wondering if they’re thinking insecurity and inadequacy caused you to get a dog considered menacing. Free yourself and get a lab, a golden, a chessie, or any of our tried and true sweethearts afield! As a gun owner, you'll do the rest of us a favor by making yourself look better.
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Old February 25, 2010, 01:52 AM   #40
LateNightFlight
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Walkers,Black & Tans,to bay,and pits to catch.
Why exactly do you need a catch dog? Is it because shooting them from 10 to 15 yards is too far away? Or is it because it's the only way convicted felons, who can't carry a gun, can still go hunting?
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Old February 25, 2010, 02:03 AM   #41
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I love how this has turned into bread bashing as oppose to helping someone make a good decision from your experiences with hunting dog breads.
I have pits, American bulldogs, Red-bone coonhound and mutts. Never had one try to bit me or anyone else. I've been around and hunted with many other breads without a problem. But I've only had three dogs try to bite/come after me 1 black lab and 2 golden retrievers (sweet family dogs).
It's not the dog it's the owners and how stable they make their dogs. Know your breed and raise them as a calm submissive dog and it will turn out just fine.
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Old February 25, 2010, 03:03 AM   #42
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I love how this has turned into bread bashing as oppose to helping someone make a good decision from your experiences with hunting dog breads.
Lot's of good suggestions for a waterfowl dog here. A pit bull just didn't happen to be one of them, IMO. I think this has been an opportunity for everybody to be exposed to some tangible facts rather than the marketing and protectionist propaganda put forth by pit bull breeders and dog fighters, which in turn is regurgitated by owners.

If I bash any "bread" it will be Wonder bread. But if I bash any breed it will be pit bulls for sure.

Time for the mods to shut this down. I don't think I can stomach another pit bull owner claiming to have only had problems with retrievers and other docile breeds. That cliché tactic is just too dishonest for my blood.

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Old February 25, 2010, 03:09 AM   #43
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LNF thanks for basically calling me and anyone else that disagree with you a liar. That's nice. Any dog breed can be dangerous, if you don't believe that it just shows your ignorance.
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Old February 25, 2010, 03:23 AM   #44
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comn-cents thank you for the support. LateNightFlight I respect your views on the subject and you should respect mine. If you don't it doesn't really matter to me. I am done debating this subject and leave it to rest with no hard feelings.
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Old February 25, 2010, 03:24 AM   #45
LateNightFlight
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Any dog breed can be dangerous
I don't disagree. I have been nipped and bitten by retrievers, but the odds were good considering I was in a retriever club and came in contact with virtually hundreds of dogs at training days and trials. Over the years I've stepped in for a variety of mishaps and fights, so it happens. But pardon my suspicion of your claim when it is in fact utterly cliche. Why does everyone who owns a pit bull have a story or ten about only ever being attacked by another breed?
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Old February 25, 2010, 03:34 AM   #46
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GunsAreGood; Good man. No hard feelings; I didn't imagine we were going here until we were there. I see both sides of it... or should I say I try until I fail. Most of all, I hope you'll have some really great dogs no matter which dogs you choose.
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Old February 25, 2010, 06:53 AM   #47
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i have 2 dogs that i take hunting with me 1 is my belgum shepard he is the best dog i have ever seen at finding game without spooking it he found me sum verry nice bucks over the years and my second dog is a rhodesian ridgeback yes its a hound and it loves hounding foxes ect but she is also a verry good retreiver and rhodesians have webbed feet good for swimming and she loves it but u have alt of choices when it comes to short haird gun dogs there are bracco italiano english setters german short & wire-haired pointers or my favroute a hungarian vizsla there is also a wire-haired version

i kno u want short hair but what about a nova scotia duck-tolling retreiver if u live in the colder places chesapeake bay retriver is best it has subcutanous fat layer that keeps them warm and oily coat or a weimaraner it just all depends what you can get any dog can bea good retriver if u teach them to be i have a mate who uses a hamiltonstovare looks like a big begal hounds make good HPR dogs its just all about the training you give them

cheers damo
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Old February 25, 2010, 01:32 PM   #48
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Since I'm the one that brought the words pit bull into this thread I'll expound a little. The OP's 3rd criterion was a dog that was good with kids. I said all dogs, even dogs with bad reputations like pit bulls, can be very well mannered, and be child friendly. However, some breeds seem to have propensities to violence. These breeds were bred to be muscular, so adding to their propensity of violence with a strong build spells bad news.

A study said:
Quote:
... pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.
Source: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Atta...%20Clifton.pdf

We're getting away from the topic though. Again, my vote is Lab.
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Old February 25, 2010, 03:47 PM   #49
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Only spaniel with a long tail.
Actually, they all have long tails if you don't dock them. My springer was undocked. Used to confuse the heck out of people, but the owners we got him from didn't have the money to get the litter done or the know-how to do it themselves.

Made it a lot easier to keep track of him while I was on the tractor.
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Old February 25, 2010, 04:17 PM   #50
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Although it was a couple decades ago, I have hunted behind a cocker spaniel. As with all dogs it was a better hunter than the guys with the opposable thumbs.

That dog was used for pheasants but there's nothing keeping a cocker from being a good water dog.

The OP was concerned about hair length. There are dog clippers. No reason to lmit your choices if you're willing to give the dog a haircut every few months.
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