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View Poll Results: Does a ported barrel shotgun help or not.
Yes it does help. 13 28.26%
No it does not help. 10 21.74%
Just a marketing ploy. 13 28.26%
Not sure. 10 21.74%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 23, 2010, 05:25 PM   #26
zippy13
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crghss wrote
Secondly, some people confuse porting with muzzle brakes. As I understand it porting puts downward pressure on the barrel where muzzle brake releases pressure to reduce recoil which reduces muzzles flip.
So we don't confuse ourselves, let's call an opening in the barrel other than the breech and muzzle a vent. Is what you call a "muzzle brake" general venting, typically horizontally opposed close to the muzzle (like on artillery barrels)? I have a gun with horizontally opposed vent slots, but they are set well back from the muzzle -- would you still call these a muzzle brake? I always thought they were referred as "ports," perhaps I'm mistaken.

There are other vent schemes, in the same general location (well behind the choke), that are a series of holes that are in the upper portion of the barrel. They usually are associated with proprietary names like Pro-Port or Mag-Na-Port. They claim to aid recoil reduction (by the same physics as other porting) and provide additional control of muzzle jump because of the "jet" effect from the size and distribution of the holes. I think these are generally called "Pro-port-type" porting. Again, I might be mistaken, in your area they might just be called "ports".

oneounceload
,
Anecdotal evidence indicates that after a bushel of oysters, porting would be the last thing on your mind.
Does porting help in muzzle jump? I'd say a little. Does it help in recoil? (This is where Zippy/Big Jim and I disagree - I say no.
To reduce muzzle jump without reducing recoil, you probably subscribe to the theory that general porting doesn't reduce sufficient energy to alter recoil, but the jets can work to offset muzzle rise. My friend, this is were we've agreed to disagree. Perhaps you've had too many oysters or I've had too few.
The top tier sporting guns - Perazzi, Kreighoff, Blazer, Beretta, Fabbri and nauseum typically do not offer it as standard. There must be a reason........
See XD Gunner's comment. And, porting can always be added, but it's hard to remove. If your looking for a new top tier gun, and your sport prohibits porting, then you'll skip any guns that are pre-ported. If you're adamant about having ports, they can be added on a custom order.
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Old February 23, 2010, 05:26 PM   #27
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As you can see from the photo from a tactical shotgun course I took the gas coming out of the ports is considerable, and I am quite sure it would indeed blow off masking tape. This is a Remington 870 with a Vang Comp barrel. The round was a reduced recoil 00 buck shot round. I believe it was Hornady.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vang-Comp.jpg (36.5 KB, 260 views)
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Old February 23, 2010, 05:32 PM   #28
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Thanks RoscoeC, one pic is worth 1k words.
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Old February 23, 2010, 06:04 PM   #29
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Well, I'd say the poll has it about right.

Last edited by crghss; February 23, 2010 at 06:50 PM.
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Old February 23, 2010, 06:12 PM   #30
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Here's an article by Randy Wakeman, a fairly knowledgeable person:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil.htm


Quote:
III. Porting reduces recoil

This one has little basis, as there is so little gas pressure left in 12,000 PSI MAP (SAAMI maximum pressure) loads by the time the gas hits the ports that it can't do much of anything. The recoil reduction is minimal. Perhaps even sillier are ported choke tubes, which have even less pressure to work with. Drill enough holes in a perfectly good barrel, you will actually increase free recoil by a tiny amount, as you gun weighs a bit less.

Super-large extended choke tubes can also weigh a lot more than factory flush-mount tubes, and if they weigh enough they will reduce free recoil by our "one-to-one" ratio. Is it time to bring back the Cutts Compensator so we can all go deaf together? Porting as a significant recoil reduction method is just full of holes.
FWIW
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Old February 23, 2010, 07:12 PM   #31
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Oneounceload,
Quote:
Extracted from Randy Wakeman's conclusion:
....Porting as a significant recoil reduction method is just full of holes. (emphasis added)
You get an Four-Oh for effort, my friend; but, didn't we stipulate some time ago that porting doesn't provide a significant recoil reduction? On the contrary, any results are subtle. If you want significant, get an air cushion stock.
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Old February 23, 2010, 07:16 PM   #32
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I still think it works OneOunce ....although I think the reduction in recoil is minimal ....I still say it reduces muzzle jump ...(but I'll defer the physics equations to Zippy )...

I like ported barrels so much / I was delighted to see the barrel on my Browning BT-100 Pigeon grade ( single barrel Trap gun ) was ported as well
( of course the muzzle jump isn't really a big factor on a single barrel Trap gun / but it helps irritate the Trap shooters next to me / so that's a plus as well ...). Like eating a gallon of oysters, a guy can't have too many ported shotguns ...
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Old February 23, 2010, 07:17 PM   #33
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You and I did....but I guess all them oysters made my eyes fuzzy - I thought some folks were still thinking that.........

Besides, a limbsaver or similar only reduces recoil by adding weight.....now if you're talking perceived, we have a whole 'nother can of worms
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Old February 23, 2010, 07:24 PM   #34
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Suppose the ports were drilled into the barrel about 8" instead of 18" or 20".

Would the increase pressure decrease recoil and decrease muzzle rise even more than if it is drilled at 18" or 20"?
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Old February 23, 2010, 07:44 PM   #35
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BigJim - porting may do some muzzle rise lessening, (and I'll imagine if you're talking about some 3 or 3-1/2 inch uber-mags, there'll be more to it), but with target loads, a heavy gun will work better than a lighter gun with porting
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Old February 23, 2010, 07:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super-Dave
Suppose the ports were drilled into the barrel about 8" instead of 18" or 20".
Beyond the detrimental effects to the internal ballistics, I don't think I want my forehand (nor my face) that close to a high pressure jet. Look at RoscoeC's pic and envision those plumes significantly increased and close to your face -- no thanks.

Also, by having the vents so close to the centroid of the gun, the result form any jet action would be to push the whole gun down, not just the muzzle. As previously indicated, you'd be better off with lighter loads. Humm... with the early vent, your loads will be self-lightening.
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Old February 23, 2010, 08:11 PM   #37
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I think we pretty much agree OneOunce ..... I was just picking on you a little

I do have a GraCoil system on my primary Trap gun ( Browning XT ) and its a 10 lb gun anyway .... and ported ... I was doing some Spring maintenance today / too wet to go shooting .... and I was polishing my BT-100 -- and I'd forgotten it was ported as well ... ( thought you'd appreciate the irony ...) in a single barrel Trap gun .....

It was a used gun to me / but it came that way out of Browning ....which I think is interesting ....
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Old February 23, 2010, 08:27 PM   #38
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Jim - I think that once Browning jumped into the morass of porting - it just became easier to make all target barrels the same way. Funny that they don't seem to do it on their field guns, where a second shot at a fleeing grouse would seem to "benefit" from porting.

(And I know you and Zippy are kidding around - a little friendly discussion is always good)......
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Old February 24, 2010, 12:53 AM   #39
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Movie time
Browning Maxus Less Muzzle Jump Than Any Competitor!

Looks like FIT to me is the key

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he38dm37cIU


more on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJmwY...eature=related
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Old February 24, 2010, 10:11 AM   #40
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Wow, make me want to get a Maxus.

Nice...not sure where this fits in to the argument but nice gun.
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Old February 24, 2010, 11:54 AM   #41
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Wow, make me want to get a Maxus.
Nice...not sure where this fits in to the argument but nice gun.
Because it exemplifies the overall physics of curbing muzzle rise. Browning has: 1. Reduced the recoil via their gas system, and 2. Reduced the overall eccentricity with its stock design. Both contribute to reduced muzzle rise.

Those of us who follow this forum know that BigJimP is a fan of guns with high/straight stock combs. The main advantage of these stocks is they give you a better view of the target. And, there's a secondary benefit, the high stocks tend to put the recoil and the resistance closer in line with each other (reduced eccentricity) so there's less muzzle rise. It's no wonder BigJim likes shooting them. There's a down side, the straight stock doesn't allow you to fine-tune by moving your face up or down a pitched comb, so Jim's stock fit must be right on the mark.
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Old February 24, 2010, 12:13 PM   #42
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and here I thought plus or minus 2 or 3 feet was ok Zippy ...

I think you're right OneOunce ....but porting on a single barrel, break open Trap gun ...really doesn't make much sense ....but when the tooling is set up to put the holes in the barrel ...its going to do them all ...
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Old February 24, 2010, 12:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
Those makers do not just do something to a gun unless it enhances the performance expectations.
I'd say as long as it didn't hamper performance, A gun maker would do whatever they thought would make them a little more money. In the end, they're still businesses and making a profit is the top priority. If putting holes in the end of a gun sells a few more, then why not?
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Old February 25, 2010, 03:56 PM   #44
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You can have your gun ported and be as happy as a clam with it, but you will not be bringing it to my duck blind.
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Old February 25, 2010, 04:54 PM   #45
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The noise thing really bothers me. I mean I have 2 ported shotguns and if there is difference in noise neither myself or anybody I have ever shot with has noticed it.

I have asked before, is there any real evidence available? One person has responded that many years ago his employer had a DB meter that he could use. He stated that there was a significant difference in the MEASURED sound from a ported gun and a similar non-ported gun. I asked what the difference was and the answer was, "er, um, I don't have that information anymore and I no longer have access to the meter, but it was significant."

Anybody...? I'm not saying it isn't so, I'm just saying I can't notice it. I will admit that I have a hard time hearing thunder these days, but still. How about some real measured evidence? Anybody have a meter and two similar shotguns, one ported and one not?
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Old February 25, 2010, 06:50 PM   #46
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Quote:
The noise thing really bothers me. I mean I have 2 ported shotguns and if there is difference in noise neither myself or anybody I have ever shot with has noticed it.
I have shot a sbe2 that was ported and one that was not and I have to agree that I nor anybody else in the blind could hear a difference, I know some people say that boss system that browning used to put on there some of there rifles was pretty loud, but I can't tell the difference with a shotgun.
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Old February 25, 2010, 07:32 PM   #47
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Standing next to folks shooting ported shotguns while pulling or scoring, the sound is not only louder, the concussion from sounds waves is more prevalent - and that is with ear muffs on, not just foam plugs.

In shooting my own guns, the ported ones do the same to me, while the few I have that are nor ported do not.

YMMV
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Old February 25, 2010, 07:43 PM   #48
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oneounceload wrote:
...and that is with ear muffs on, not just foam plugs.
My friend, you need to try some custom mounded plugs. The difference in sound attenuation is amazing. You'll no longer hear the difference between a ported and un-ported gun. I used the old Lee-sonic type for years, and the custom molded ones are a quantum leap better.
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Old February 25, 2010, 08:08 PM   #49
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Zippy - have a pair - have had them for years. Got them at the old Shotgun News Gun Show in Reno......for ME, foam plugs work better, used them for decades...read some articles about the bones around the ear needing protection, so I use muffs - they dampen the noise better than anything except plugs and muffs. Mine do over 29db NRR, but I can still feel the concussion in the air - hard not to when you're standing right next to them....
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Old February 25, 2010, 09:04 PM   #50
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1-oz.
Yeah, I forgot, too many oysters make your ears extra sensitive, among other things.
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