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Old February 7, 2010, 10:57 PM   #1
EdInk
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Shotgun with pistol grip stock

I'm looking for a shotgun that has a pistol grip and shoulder stock.

I was really wanting a Saiga but I don't want to spend the time or money to convert it to proper AK configuration.

I'd don't care if it's a pump or semiauto. I would like it to be already equipped with the pistol grip. Also, I'm looking for it to be 12ga. and preferably under $500 if possible.

What do you suggest. I've heard good things about the Mossberg line.
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Old February 7, 2010, 11:02 PM   #2
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I forgot to mention that I was also looking at a Stoeger coach gun but found out that they have a safety that must be turned off before shooting.

I prefer guns with no type of manual safeties. I don't know of that's possible on a shotgun. If not I'd like one that I can just leave turned off.
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Old February 7, 2010, 11:11 PM   #3
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Remington 870 with this:

http://www.remington.com/products/ac...hot-stock.aspx

It comes in black.
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Old February 8, 2010, 12:49 AM   #4
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No thanks. I don't care or the hand through stock design. I want a regular pistol grip.
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Old February 8, 2010, 01:08 AM   #5
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The mossberg 590A1 tactical. It's a great gun. Also the price isn't that bad. It comes with the AR type stock. Here's the gun. http://www.gunshopfinder.com/mossber...berg_51670.asp
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Old February 8, 2010, 01:42 AM   #6
EdInk
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Thanks for the link. That looks pretty nice. I think I might like the 950 I saw on there even better.
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Old February 8, 2010, 01:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdInk
I prefer guns with no type of manual safeties.
With the Remingtons, the safety can be discarded and the hole in the trigger guard plugged. With the Mossbergs, the safety is on the hump and its removal will leave a significant opening.
You want a gun with a detached pistol grip, not a standard pistol grip. See below…

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Old February 8, 2010, 10:08 AM   #8
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Thank you Zippy.

It's obvious my shotgun knowledge is not up to par. I'm glad to know about the safeties. I meant to type 930 in my previous post.

Lastly, besides speed what are the pros and cons of a semi vs a pump. Pumps seem more popular. Is it mainly because the are cheaper.
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Old February 8, 2010, 10:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Pumps seem more popular. Is it mainly because the are cheaper.
Yes. Some will say more reliable because everything is a manual operation - but that can have issues in a stress-filled scenario (short-shucking).
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Old February 8, 2010, 10:24 AM   #10
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That Remington 1100 Tactical caught my eye. Then a price check on the web was around $700. If I'm going to spend that kind of money I may as well get the Saiga set up the way I want it. However, I am learning alot.

The safety issue isn't a deal breaker if I go with a tacti-cool shotgun.

From the info I've gathered what I want is a shotgun with:

18"-20" barrel
Black synthetic hardware
Detached pistol grip
Butt stock
Minimum 6rd capacity.
Pump or Semiauto (but starting to lean more toward semiauto.)
And if possible for a well made one under $550ish.
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Old February 8, 2010, 02:23 PM   #11
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EdInk, I suspect your objection is with a safety that automatically engages, not safeties in general. Guns with auto engaging safeties are usually field and/or youth models. These can usually be converted to manual operation. Here's an extract from the Ruger O/U instruction manual:
OPERATION OF SAFETY
The RUGER® OVER AND UNDER SHOTGUN has a safety selector
combined with a barrel selector for convenient use. The safety selector is located
at the top rear of the receiver.
The safety selector can be moved from the “Fire” position to its “Safe” position
whether or not the mechanism is cocked. Fully opening the shotgun cocks the
mechanism. The action can be opened with the safety “on.”
Whenever the action is opened, the safety automatically moves rearward to its
“on,” or “Safe” position
(the letter ‘S’ visible forward of the safety thumbpiece on
the top surface of the receiver). If the safety thumbpiece is moved forward to
cover the letter ‘S’, the safety is in its “off” or “Fire” position and remains in that
position until moved back to the “Safe” position manually, or until the action is
opened again. Keep the safety “on” unless actually firing!
NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY AVAILABLE – The automatic safety in the Ruger
shotgun is generally desired for field guns. However, the automatic safety can be
replaced by a non-automatic safety upon request if the shotgun is returned to
our factory.
(Bold emphasis added)
For the comp shooters, factory safeties are frequently blocked. Some guns have a hole in the trigger assembly, while not discussed in the owners manual (for obvious reasons), pinning the hole locks the safety on off. Why?… because the safe gun handling practices of comp shooting don't include trusting a safety.

One aspect of comp shooting that always bothered me was the very small percentage of shooters (couples) who'd bring toddlers to matches. They'd leave the kid(s) unattended while they shot. I still have visions of a 3-year old riding a tricycle down the gun club's main path. He'd stop at each field so he could snap the triggers and slide the safeties of every gun in the club racks he could get to. It didn't last very long before somebody grabbed him. But, it showed that the unexpected can, and will, happen.

At a Skeet match, many years ago, my squad leader (a seasoned competitor - subsequently in the NSSA's Hall of Fame) finally shot his first 100-straight. At the end of the day he proceeded me in the sudden-death shoot off squad. Imagine our surprise when he called for his first pair and his R-3200 wouldn't fire because the safety was set. He'd didn't even have a chance to shoot before he was out. We don't know if he been sabotaged, or if, in the excitement, he'd been mindlessly fiddling with his safety. (My comp guns have the little pin added that lock out the safety.)
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Old February 8, 2010, 04:49 PM   #12
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Zippy - I have seen folks set safeties on guns in the rack - more as a prank, but as you mentioned, in a tournament, it is a lost bird. In a HD scenario, it could be a lost life.........
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Old February 8, 2010, 06:13 PM   #13
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Ed,

Do yourself a favor. Buy a copy of Robert Ruark's The Old Man And The Boy ( http://www.amazon.com/Old-Man-Boy-Ro.../dp/0805002391 ) and read it. There's a lot in there on shotgunning. Reading it will do you good and teach you a lot, and unless you're all dried up and dusty inside and never were any kind of boy at all, you'll enjoy it too.

Get yourself some defensive shotgun training from someone who knows how to teach it. What you know how to do with a shotgun is a lot more important than what shotgun you have.

Learn to use the safety, it's there for a reason. More importantly, learn that safeties are mechanical devices and can fail, so you have to practice trigger finger discipline, muzzle control, and all the other safety stuff that's been discovered over the years to help keep Murphy at bay.

Or else Mr. Murphy will likely be coming to pay you a visit, Real Soon... and I can name at least one shotgunner who won't have one thing to do with you in person, if you refuse to use a safety when it should be used, and be safe on top of that. You see, I don't like that Murphy, and I won't hang around with people who invite him in.

Stay Safe,

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Last edited by Lee Lapin; February 8, 2010 at 07:38 PM.
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Old February 8, 2010, 06:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
I have seen folks set safeties on guns in the rack - more as a prank, but as you mentioned, in a tournament, it is a lost bird. In a HD scenario, it could be a lost life.
I take it you shoot skeet, American or International. Your body creates a memory. With practice the swing becomes an automatic, the lead comes natural and unconciously you follow throug after pulling the triger. When something is practiced repeatedly you do things naturaly. Same with the safety. When shooting a competition the safety should be on at all times exept when you step in the station when it comes off. When you are done, safety on and you step out off the station. Same thing hunting. With practice engaging the safety becomes second nature.
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Old February 8, 2010, 07:24 PM   #15
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Sorry Maromero -

I shoot sporting and NEVER use a safety, because until someone steps into the cage, their gun is unloaded..everytime
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Old February 8, 2010, 08:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
I shoot sporting and NEVER use a safety, because until someone steps into the cage, their gun is unloaded..everytime
Ditto. Empty chamber with the safety on. Safety on every instant the gun is not going tobe shot. I desengage the safety everytime I bring the shotgun to my shoulder.
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Old February 8, 2010, 08:23 PM   #17
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My guns have manual safeties....have never set them on any of my target guns, not even sure they work..all I know is that they do not interfere with my target shooting
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Old February 8, 2010, 08:35 PM   #18
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every shooter develops different (and hopefully) safe shooting habits. Some of us may disagree on those habits, but if it works for you, who cares what others think. Some people pack glocks as CCW because they don't want to risk a safety interfering, some people pack DA Sigs because of the added safety of DA with accurate SA follow ups and some people pack 1911's and undo the safety without losing a millisecond over the others... why? Because we develop our own habits and tastes.

I'm a chronic safety fiend. I've cost my friends a few clay pigeons. We used to casually knock hand tossed pigeons with an 1100 and after every 5 shots, we'd pass the gun along. Well, I had this habit of always hitting the safety and my friends didn't. So they'd get the gun, go to fire and: nothing. I'd always flick the safety off on the gun when they passed it to me, even when they didn't turn it on.
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