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Old February 4, 2010, 08:20 AM   #1
IamSmitty
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Semi Auto .308

To start off, this is my first post. So if I put it in the wring place or any other faux pas, let me know.

So I'm looking to get a semi auto .308, but not sure
what to get.

There's a used CETNE at the local gun shop for 550. It's cones with two mags and a nice scope. Made by century arms. Not sure about that one. It's pretty heavy, the owner said it is match grade? Any thoughts there?
I'd like to find an FN FAL for sale. Don't know much about them. What kind of price can I expect, where should I look, etc.

Any thoughts, opinions on the matter?
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Old February 4, 2010, 08:43 AM   #2
condition_ONE
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Did you mean 'CETME'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETME

That's basically a G3. I don't know what would be 'match grade' about it, but I'd probably ignore that little 'fact'. And I'd have to question the quality and condition of any similar rifle that was available for that price.

Most semi-auto battle rifles that are available in .308/7.62x51mm are usually pretty expensive- $1k on up. One fairly new and interesting example is the KelTec RFB: http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/rfb.htm It's new, it's expensive (compared to the $550 you mentioned) but from all accounts, it's really awesome. I personally haven't shot one yet (because it's new and expensive lol).

FALs and G3s (and the other HK style offshoots) are pretty solid rifles but can vary a lot in condition and reliability depending on how good they've been taken care of (if they're used).

.30 cal AR style rifles are also an option. AR10s and so on in .308 are pretty attainable these days, particularly when compared to G3s and FALs etc. and they have the advantage of being compatible with a large majority of AR accessories like grips and hand guards and all sorts of tacti-cool stuff.

Did I help at all?
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Old February 4, 2010, 10:56 AM   #3
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I had one and sold it. Lots of jams. Not worth the hassle IMHO. I went with a FAL.
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Old February 4, 2010, 11:00 AM   #4
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I'm in the hunt for a semi auto .308 to fill the last gap in my SHTF lineup. I've had a chance to wring out a CETME, a Sagia, a Polytech M14S, a Norinco M14 clone and a Socom M1- A.

Not an all inclusive list, to be sure, just a good stab at being an informed consumer. (I'm not gonna get into a pizzin contest to damn or defend my data/impressions or yours, just sharing what I think I learned)

In my experience, the Sagia was reliable, easy handling with acceptable accuracy, with the 16 in. barrell. Price around $550.00

The CETME was rough, sticky and not as easy to shoot well, compared to the Saiga. Price around $700.00.

Both the Polytech and the Norinco were good shooters, reliable and more accurate than either of the AK style platforms. The AK's were much lighter, but I liked the offhand "balance" better of the M1-A platform. (IMO, need's a shorter barrel, but that's a trade off with accuracy and "handling" and a nod to the tacti-crazy bunch) Prices were between $700.00 and $1100.00

The SA Socom was, overall, the best of the bunch, hands down. (But heavy and bulky to carry) Sticker shock was evident, not sayin' it ain't worth it, just more than I want to spend on a SHTF gun.

I'd still like to get my hands on a Mini-G and the Remington R-25 to shoot, but both are way out of my price range.. So, for now I'm looking for a used Polytech. The search goes on... Paul
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Old February 4, 2010, 11:06 AM   #5
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CETME rifles were way cool when they were $300. They have shot up in price pretty well in the last 7 or 8 years. If you get a good one, they are still pretty good. Century did alot of bolt grinding on some of these to get them to function, as they are a roller lock up type action. If you like to tinker, there is alot of info on how to make these run right. When they were cheap, that was not such a big deal. Now that they have nearly doubled in price, spending the money and THEN the effort to make it run may not be so appealing. But when set up right, they are a ton of fun.
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Old February 4, 2010, 02:59 PM   #6
IamSmitty
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Haha, my bad on the spelling. Guess I should double check that...

Maybe this will help further refine my choices;
I will use it mainly for target shooting. Nothing competitive, just messing around. I would also probably take it out hog hunting once in a great while. Obviously something dependable. Looks play a part, too.

Any new ideas?
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Old February 4, 2010, 04:01 PM   #7
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IMHO the best of the military grade 308 Win/7.62x51mm NATO semi auto rifles are the platforms based on the M14/M1A action. They are the strongest and most reliable in field conditions, and when tuned by a competent riflesmith are capable of extreme accuracy.
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Old February 4, 2010, 05:01 PM   #8
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Yes, when the Cetme's were going for $300, I regret buying one. But, at $550, I'd rather spend the extra money and find a decent used PTR-91.

In an M1A/M14 format, I like the polytech M14's, when you can find them for a decent price. Replace the bolt and other parts with USGI parts, and you have a darn fine rifle....but not for $550 - probably more like $1,300 all in.
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Old February 4, 2010, 06:17 PM   #9
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You can find CETMEs on line now for $499+ shipping. Dealer price is cheaper. The price has come down a lot in recent months due to the glut of ARs on the market. With a decent scope mounted it might be worth $550.

Forget match grade, it is unlikely that Century would make anything worthy of the name. These are "rebuilds" of the Spanish version of the FAL, which was a very good design for a battle rifle.... 60 years ago. Jamming and feeding problems can be overcome and a good FAL specialty forum can assist you should you encounter problems.
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Old February 4, 2010, 06:30 PM   #10
Tucker 1371
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Quote:
These are "rebuilds" of the Spanish version of the FAL,
It was actually it was designed after WWII by a bunch of Ex-Nazis in Spain, named the CETME there, then when they came back to West Germany it became the HK G3. But yes, they are Spanish CETME rebuilds.

I wouldn't pay a cent over $500 for a Century CETME. Buy it for a plinker and only when you can get a decent price.

Century makes/rebuilds FALs as well but they will run a little higher (some moron on GB wants $1200 for his )
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Old February 4, 2010, 06:40 PM   #11
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If it shoots well go for it.Everyone is a little squeamish about the $550 but the days of a $400 FAL or $300 Cetme are gone.Century with all they do is a hit or miss,as long as the barrel and operating rod are lined up with the receiver you usually don't have any problems.I bought one from a friend that said it just fired too slow for him?It groups fine and has never missed a lick so it must be one of the good ones.
Parts kits just aren't there anymore so the chances of getting a .308 battle rifle under $600 is fading away.So the alternative will be a DSA FAL,M1A1,or any of the other AR-10 for $1200 and up.
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Old February 4, 2010, 06:44 PM   #12
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Will if your price range is CETME, then look at the Saiga as well. I would pick the saiga in that range.

At the $1000 range I would go with the ptr-91, DPMS LR308 or a DSA Stg58

At the $1500 range, you could go with either the M1A basic DSA SA58 or the armalite AR-10.

1800-$2000 range you have the DSA58 tactical. They are hard to find however.

above that, you have lots of choices most custom.

If I could only have one, I would go with the M1A/M14, then try to get the others later on.
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Old February 4, 2010, 07:44 PM   #13
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Weird, I had always heard that the Germans ripped off the FAL because the Belgians would not sell to them. Here is the Wikipedia version:

Quote:
The CETME rifle was designed primarily by the German engineer Ludwig Vorgrimler, who based his design on the experimental German StG45(M) and the French-made AME 49. The StG45 used a roller-delayed blowback mechanism somewhat similar to the roller-locking system patented by Edward Stecke in the 1930s in Poland and used in the MG42. The MG42 locking system actually locks completely and requires a short stroke barrel that travels backwards to unlock, compared to the StG45(M) system that never completely locks and does not require a moving barrel. The CETME design inherits the StG45(M)'s fixed-barrel. The rifle was initially designed for other cartridges, including the 7.62x51 CETME, but due to feedback from H&K the rifle was chambered for the more powerful 7.62x51mm NATO round. Model B went on to be the foundation of the widely-deployed Heckler & Koch G3 battle rifle.
I wonder what truth is?
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Old February 4, 2010, 08:40 PM   #14
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I don't see anything wrong in that WikiP snippet, but I also don't see anything in it about the FAL or a Belgian design.

It is probably that you remember that in the 1950s the new West German army (Bundeswehr) used some FALs and wanted to have them made under license in West Germany. Since FN would not agree, this never happened and the Budeswehr went with a completely different design. Which had been a German concept to start with, that being the G3.

The G1 was the FAL, and the G2 is a mystery to me, as is everything between the G3 and the G36. There must have been a lot of experimental models.

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Old February 4, 2010, 11:49 PM   #15
Brenten
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huh?? As far as I remember the cetme is a cheap copy of the hk-91 nothing more nothing less. The ptr-91(not to mention the hk-91, G3 and the greek sar8/3 which are all high quality) is better if you wish to get that design. you can get new cetme's for $500, so it is funny to see people trying to sell used ones for the same...lol.
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Old February 5, 2010, 11:09 AM   #16
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[huh?? As far as I remember the cetme is a cheap copy of the hk-91 nothing more nothing less.
My understanding was that HK took the CETME concept and ran with it, hence the G3. In other words, HK copied the CETME, not the other way around.

But I've been mis-ionformed before. Especially when the source is the interwebs.....
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Old February 5, 2010, 11:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
you can get new cetme's for $500
Is there such a thing as a "new" CETME? I would like to know, as I had one that was pretty good, was in the process of tinkering to make it a little better, and then had it stolen.
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Old February 5, 2010, 12:59 PM   #18
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I'm very fond of my .308 saiga however off the rack they don't have pistol grips. changing it back over to a standard config is not difficult but requires about $150 in extra parts to do. the another drawback is while there are aftermarket mags from 10-25round capacity they're made of plastic and not as durable and metal mags on other rifles and are also pretty spendy. I'm hoping someone will come up with a DIY conversion to use AR-10 mags similar to the m16 conversion I've seen for .223 ak's
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Old February 5, 2010, 01:09 PM   #19
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Most accurate semiauto's using the .308 or 7.62 NATO round are either M1's rebarreled or M14NM's rebarreled, both with aftermarket custom match barrels by Obermeyer or Kreiger. Those built by that handful of 'smiths catering to the top military team shooters would shoot all day long with good commercial match ammo inside 4 inches at 600 yards.

I know of no other semiauto rifle for this cartridge that's ever been able to do that. Note that one that shoots 2/3 MOA at 100 yards won't come close to 2/3 MOA at 600. They'll need to shoot almost 1/4 MOA at 100 to do that well.
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Old February 5, 2010, 03:28 PM   #20
Brenten
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uncyboo, we must be talking different guns:


here is what I am talking about

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/2657
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