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Old February 2, 2010, 11:02 AM   #1
Starvingboy
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30/30 vs .308... Same Bullets?

So, my neighbor wants me to load 30/30 winchester. Myself, I'm sitting on PILES of .308 projectiles. The diameter is the same, the weight is the same... other than the fat rounded nose, is there any reason they can't be interchanged? I'm guessing something to do with pointy bullets in a lever action rifle...
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Old February 2, 2010, 11:07 AM   #2
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Standard diameter for .30-30 is .309. Standard diameter for .308 is .308. Not sure what the downside to using a slightly undersized bullet would be, other than poor accuracy (maybe). The bigger issue is one you've already hit upon and that is that pointy bullets and lever guns don't mix. Potential for catastrophe from primers being set off by the next bullet in line under recoil. If it's for a bolt action or single shot .30-30 it's OK, but it's important to clearly mark the ammo boxes so that somebody doesn't screw up sometime down the road and try to shoot them from a lever gun.

Another consideration would be the liability of loading for someone else.

Edit: upon further research it appears as if .307-.308 is standard for .30-30. Pulled that .309 figure off this website.
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Last edited by rantingredneck; February 2, 2010 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Bullet diameter info.....
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Old February 2, 2010, 11:28 AM   #3
Loader9
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You'll find old production of 30-30 bullets to be .307 diameter but all new production is .308 including those made specifically for the 30-30. If you'll look in the reloading manual, it will tell you the diameter of the bullet that the data is for but all of my books, including the older ones, show the diameter at .308. If loading towards max, take into consideration the bearing surface on the barrel. I wouldn't expect it to be an issue but I don't know what "piles" of .308 bullets means. So effectually, there is no interchange as such. Just use the .308 you have provided these are not going into a tube magazine type rifle which you probably know needs to have a blunt bullet. If all you have are "pointy" bullets, they can be fired in a 30-30 successfully BUT only in single fire or where one is in the chamber and only one in the magazine. Considering you are loading these for some one else, make sure YOU test fire any loads in HIS rifle before handing the ammo to the guy.
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Old February 2, 2010, 11:45 AM   #4
res45
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Bullets used in 30-30 and 308 rifles are the same dia. at least the ones I have all are. The problem with using the pointed bullets in the 30-30 tube magazine firearms where it's Spire Points,FMJ or Match HP design is the point of the bullet rest agents the primer and under recoil can set the primer off just like a firing pin and setting off every round in the magazine. The only exception to this other than the traditional RN or FP 30-30 bullets in a tubular magazine is the Hornady FTX flex tip SP which is safe to use in tubular magazines.

If the rifle in question is fed by a box magazine as in a Savage 340 bolt action,you can use any style bullet since they stack one on top of another instead of back to back in the magazine.
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Old February 2, 2010, 11:56 AM   #5
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Remember there's more to a bullet than just a "hunk of lead moving REALLYREALLY fast."

Just like hollowpoint pistol bullets are little miracles of modern machinery engineering, modern rifle bullets are also expressly designed for certain purposes.

Looking at a flatnosed 170gr .30-30 bullet, it has more bearing surface against the rifling. It is designed to fly about 2100fps or so, and impact a target between 1500 and 2000 fps for best expansion and penetration for the game it is designed to put down.

Looking at a spirepoint 165gr .308 bullet, it has less bearing surface against the rifling (compared to the .30-30 bullet). It is designed to fly about 2600fps or so, and impact a target around 2300 fps for best expansion and penetration for the game it is designed to put down.

If you launch that 165gr bullet from a .30-30's barrel at only 2100fps, it won't get the right rate of spin to stabilize (the barrel was designed to have more bearing surface to engage), and the bullet won't get enough speed to do its designed job of mushrooming and expansion.

Same thing goes if you take a Remington PSP 165gr bullet intended for .308 Winchester loads, and stick it in a .300 Remington Ultra Magnum at 3300fps.
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Old February 2, 2010, 05:54 PM   #6
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i use the pointed 30 cal bullets for my bolt action 30-30 and havent had any issues, other than achieving the proper expansion at low velocities.
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Old February 2, 2010, 07:25 PM   #7
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Cool,sounds like the chief concern is the magazine tube. I measured the bullets with calipers, and they were the same diameter. By "Piles" of bullets, I reload .308 by the hundreds, and have a few thousand of everything on hand.

My neighbor is wanting to learn reloading, so it's a "WE" thing right now. Sounds like it works, just be aware that it can go horribly, horribly wrong
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Old September 12, 2014, 06:38 PM   #8
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I have pulled Russian and Czech 7.62x54r bullets and miked them. THey are .3095. I have used these successfully. They are FMJ though.
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Old September 12, 2014, 06:57 PM   #9
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SAAMI specs for .30-30 bullets are the same as .308 Win and .30-06; .309" -.003" tolerance. Bore and groove specs are also the same for all three; .300, .308, and +.002" tolerance. See pages 57 and 66 in:

http://saami.org/specifications_and_...wnload/206.pdf

168-gr HPMK bullets have been shot at 2100 to 2200 fps from 1:12 twist .308 Win free rifle barrels winning Olympic and other international gold medals. So, 165 SBT's from 30-30 barrels will do just fine.

AZredhawk; What's this "more bearing surface to engage" about? Go to SAAMI's web site then compare the bore and groove specs for the 4-groove .308 Win and 6-groove .30-30 then explain them relative to bearing surfaces to engage and spin needed to stabilize them.
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Old September 13, 2014, 10:13 PM   #10
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Some Reservations.......

Not that I wouldn't ever reload for someone else...but I'm generally reserved about it. If you are going to do it, I would suggest you use flat point bullets exclusively, regardless of the type of rifle. Once the ammo is out of your hands you can never be sure that some of it wouldn't get used in a tube-magazine rifle. And stay away from maximum loads. Make sure to trim the cases everytime they are reloaded and use a Lee factory crimp die.
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Old September 14, 2014, 03:20 PM   #11
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You should not be using ponted bullets in s tube magazine. What type of 30-30 are they using.

Concern is that the recoil can force a round to hit the primer and boom in the tube? They will also be too long to feed in most lever actions. Hornady's soft tip 30-30s required Marlin to redeisgn the feeding mechanizime on their rifles.
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Old September 14, 2014, 04:10 PM   #12
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I have never got around to measuring the threshold of pointy bullets in tube feed trouble. I could calculate the free recoil rifle velocity and replicate the velocity in ammo with a drop tube. I could substitute some other pointy mass for the rear of the tube full of cartridges.

Supposedly someone in Alaska with a 475 wildcat got one to go off in the tube ~ 10 years ago.

No one seems to argue that 25-20 bullets all having flat noses amounts to decades of silliness.

The line of the threshold of trouble is somewhere in between, and the 30-30 is somewhere in between.

One thing one could do with pointy bullets is have a long one in the chamber, and one short enough to feed in the tube. That would make an accurate long range first shot, and a fast follow up long range shot.
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Old September 14, 2014, 05:22 PM   #13
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One thing one could do with pointy bullets is have a long one in the chamber, and one short enough to feed in the tube. That would make an accurate long range first shot, and a fast follow up long range shot.


"Long Range"? ....two differently shaped bullets will have different trajectories .... and maybe different zeroes ..... my rifle prints boattails several inches right of where it puts flat based bullets ...... if the plan is to have an inaccurate follow up shot, then it's a bad plan.
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Old September 14, 2014, 06:07 PM   #14
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I was thinking of the second cartridge having the same bullet, slightly less powder, shorter over all length so it would feed, and tuned to have the same trajectory.
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Old September 14, 2014, 09:02 PM   #15
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A lot depends on what you want the bullet to do. For rock busting, heck, any bullet will do, except the pointy ones in a 30-30 magazine.

However, for hunting, I am of the opinion that the bullets for the 30-30 are thinner skinned than those made for 308 Win, or 300 Win Mags.
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Old September 14, 2014, 09:31 PM   #16
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The deer type bullets have tapered skins and penetrate 12~14 inches over a wide range of velocities, while the partitions are ~ 20 inches over a wide range of velocities.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg penetration2.jpg (25.3 KB, 8 views)
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Old September 15, 2014, 01:33 PM   #17
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Another difference between bullets intended for 30-30 and .308 is the cannelure in the bullet intended for the 30-30. This, like the flat nosed bullets, is because of their use in a tubular magazine. The roll crimp into the cannelure is supposed to help against bullet setback due to recoil.
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Old September 15, 2014, 01:35 PM   #18
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Ya'll notice the original question is 4 years old?
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Old September 15, 2014, 03:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
T. O'Heir
Ya'll notice the original question is 4 years old?
I did not.
And I had to be told that Ice Road Truckers is scripted.
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Old September 15, 2014, 05:32 PM   #20
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I doubt the cannelured .30-30 bullets are for crimped case mouths to have a better grip on bullets to survive recoil. Harder kicking rifles' reloaded and new ammo's often without crimped in bullets that don't set back from box magazine front wall impacts. They smack bullets much harder.
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Old September 16, 2014, 09:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bart B.:

I doubt the cannelured .30-30 bullets are for crimped case mouths to have a better grip on bullets to survive recoil.

....added to the recoil is the force on the bullet as it is loaded thru the loading gate and the force of the magazine spring when the cartridges are in the tube. All or any of these can lead to bullet set-back, even if you have your doubts. This is why every major manufacturer that produces bullets for 30-30s, .32 Specials and other firearms with tubular mags put a cannelure on their bullets. The cause of the set back is not as important as using the proper bullet, and for the 30-30 with a tubular mag, one needs to use a flat or the new plastic tipped bullets that have a cannelure for crimping. These are the major differences from standard .308 bullets.
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Old September 16, 2014, 09:28 PM   #22
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I was thinking of the second cartridge having the same bullet, slightly less powder, shorter over all length so it would feed, and tuned to have the same trajectory.
'Splain me how you would do that ......
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Old September 16, 2014, 09:47 PM   #23
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'Splain me how you would do that ......
All I can think is trimming the brass down so it retains seated depth. That would make shorter OAL and increased pressure allowing less powder to be used but getting the same trajectory would be a trick.
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Old September 16, 2014, 11:42 PM   #24
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If there is a 2.76" OAL 30-30 cartridge in the chamber of a Win 94, it can eject still unfired.
If there is a 2.55" OAL 30-30 cartridge in the chamber of a Win 94, it can feed.
If the first has 28.4 gr H322 150 gr Nos Bal Tip, the velocity from the 20" barrel is 2197 fps 38kpsi
If the second has 27 gr H322, the velocity from the 20" barrel is 2199 fps 41.97 kpsi.

If zero'ed at 200 yards, both cartridges take 10.5" elevation at 300 yards.
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Old September 19, 2014, 05:44 PM   #25
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Is the .30-30 tube fed? Then use flatnoses for both, or don't go there at all (unless you have a source of those LeverEvolution bullets - seriously, why Nosler didn't beat Hornady to that particular innovation is beyond me).
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