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Old January 31, 2010, 09:03 PM   #1
firstnonly
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NY pistol permit DENIED!!!

Hi everyone,

I'm a resident on Westchester County, in wonderful NY. I'm looking to get some advice on my current pistol permit dilemma.....here it goes:

Applied for a Westchester County pistol permit back in 06, just for sport shooting (no ccw). I waited 8 months for a response and was denied. The denial was based on a disorderly conduct arrest, along with unlicensed operation in 2002. The grounds for denial were that I "Lack the moral character necessary to posses a handgun". I spoke with a layer who informed me about filing an article 78 to appeal the decision, but ultimately he felt I would be better waiting a year and re-applying.

I waited and re-applied in September of 09.............Just got my response in the mail and DENIED AGAIN!!!!!!!!

I have yet again been denied on the same grounds of "Lacking moral character". My record is clean aside from that one incident in 2002. I'm really just shocked that I have been denied again....I guess the fact that I am the responsible owner of 2 long guns doesn't come into play when it comes to a pistol.

I will be filing the article 78 this time, although I'm not that optimistic about the outcome.

Anyone have a similar situation?

Any pointers on how to purse this?
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:06 PM   #2
troy_mclure
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Quote:
Any pointers on how to purse this?
Leave ny.
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:12 PM   #3
firstnonly
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Leave ny.
Those plans are hopefully in the near future.
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:15 PM   #4
ProjectCamaro
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Disorderly conduct is a serious crime and I can't say I'm suprised you were denied because of it. Here in WI your background would not have passed with that either. You can appeal as many times as you want but that is on your record for the rest of your life.
In the future think before you break the law.
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:19 PM   #5
mikejonestkd
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Here's some info about how to proceed with an Article 78 appeal.

http://www.lawny.org/index.php/benef...n-to-the-court

Any chance that you can move to another county? Westchester is almost as restrictive as the NYC Boroughs.
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Last edited by mikejonestkd; January 31, 2010 at 09:32 PM.
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:20 PM   #6
firstnonly
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Quote:
Disorderly conduct is a serious crime
You can be charged with Disorderly conduct for many things, some of which I wouldn't consider a "serious crime"

Section 240.20 Disorderly conduct

A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof:

1. He engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior; or

2. He makes unreasonable noise; or

3. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or

4. Without lawful authority, he disturbs any lawful assembly or meeting of persons; or

5. He obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or

6. He congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse; or

7. He creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.

Disorderly conduct is a violation.
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:26 PM   #7
Doc Intrepid
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What Troy said...

You can continue re-submitting whatever forms you like, but I think you'd better standby for disappointment. New York governor David Patterson may be reasonably centrist, as he selected Kirsten Gillibrand - who was endorsed by the NRA - to replace Rep. Hillary Clinton in the Senate; but Mayor Bloomberg is a gun-ban nightmare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/24/ny...24senator.html

Given your record, I suspect your chances will remain mighty slim.

Relocate out west and try again. Best with that,

Doc
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:29 PM   #8
allenomics
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Attend NRA sanctioned training classes, volunteer with you local sheriff's office, get letters of recommendation as to your character. Document it all. Have a lawyer work with you in about a year and start the process all over. Just my .02.
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:48 PM   #9
UtahHunting
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Quote:
You can be charged with Disorderly conduct for many things, some of which I wouldn't consider a "serious crime"
I would deny you based on this statement alone. You obviously have no regard for the law because you don't deem it "serious".
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Old January 31, 2010, 09:54 PM   #10
hickstick_10
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disorderly conduct and driving with no license?

not exactly an unpaid parking ticket
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:06 PM   #11
firstnonly
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I would deny you based on this statement alone. You obviously have no regard for the law because you don't deem it "serious".
First off I have plenty of regard for the law. The reason for my post is not to gather personal opinions on the severity of a disorderly conduct charge. I take full responsibility for my actions and wish that things could have been handled different but you cant change the past......but I guess that I should be looked at as a hardened criminal for these 2 violations from 8 years ago....we're not talking misdemenors or felonies here, we're talking violations.

And call me crazy but when you can be charged with a disorderly conduct VIOLATION for "making an unreasonable noise", I wouldn't deem that as serious crime.....but that's just me.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:14 PM   #12
Peru
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I would deny you based on this statement alone. You obviously have no regard for the law because you don't deem it "serious".

Don't be rediculous

Not possible to deny for that reason. That's why we live in the USA and not Iran
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:16 PM   #13
Chettt
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I bet each time you resubmit they just check your name against the "denied" file first and don't reexamine your file.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:16 PM   #14
ladder13
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My advice, ask to see the Judge. When I lived in Westchester, I too was denied, because of an incident 15 yrs prior. I requested an appeal before the Judge, on the recommendation of an NRA lawyer, and was approved right then and there by the Judge. I was granted "hunting and target" priveleges.
I have sinced moved to Putnam and now have an "unrestricted" license.
BTW, I ignore those who say to move, it's alot easier said than done. Would they give you a job paying NY wages, not Walmart wages? Would they offer to pay for the move? Would they leave their family members behind?
And also, life is more than just guns. God fills my every need, not material nor man.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:20 PM   #15
firstnonly
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Ladder that's interesting......Did you request the appeal via an article 78 or by other means?

Also, did you represent yourself or did you have a lawyer present?
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:20 PM   #16
Maromero
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How old r'u?
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:23 PM   #17
EnoughGUN
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Quote:
Quote:
You can be charged with Disorderly conduct for many things, some of which I wouldn't consider a "serious crime"

I would deny you based on this statement alone. You obviously have no regard for the law because you don't deem it "serious".
Have you ever rolled through a stop, broken the speed limit by ANY amount, got pirate HBO, got too much change back and not returned it, taken the cap off your radiator and spilled some coolant on the street, chirped tires by mistake taking off too fast, driven with your window down and had something fly out or any of a million other things you and everyone else knows we all have done at some point that are technicaly against some law or statute but not any sort of dangerous of serious crime. No? well then preach on. If Yes then lets be a bit more reasonable and not cast stones.

If we could be deny us things for ANY infraction on ANY level there is not a person here that would qualify.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:24 PM   #18
firstnonly
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I bet each time you resubmit they just check your name against the "denied" file first and don't reexamine your file.
I wouldn't be surprised, so far they've collected over $200 in application fees from me and I'm still empty handed.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:26 PM   #19
mikejonestkd
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Just checked the link I gave you earlier and found this:

Quote:
Is there a time deadline for filing an Article 78 proceeding?

Yes. Article 78 proceedings must be filed within four months of the date you receive the fair hearing decision. Check with a lawyer as soon as you can to find out if your deadline is even shorter.
Sounds like you are way past the deadline. Time to hire a lawyer...good luck and I hope it works out for the best
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:30 PM   #20
firstnonly
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Quote:
Just checked the link I gave you earlier and found this:

Quote:
Is there a time deadline for filing an Article 78 proceeding?

Yes. Article 78 proceedings must be filed within four months of the date you receive the fair hearing decision. Check with a lawyer as soon as you can to find out if your deadline is even shorter.
Sounds like you are way past the deadline. Time to hire a lawyer...good luck and I hope it works out for the best
Yeah I noticed that, but I just got notice for my second denial a few days ago so I should still have the 4 months.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:41 PM   #21
ladder13
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firstnonly,
I got in touch with an NRA lawyer by the name of David I. Caplan, who was also on the Board of Directors, he had advertised in the NYSRPA mag called the Bullet. He told me if he had to go to court he'd have to charge me, but he made a call to the Judge and spoke to him, and the Judge asked me to come visit him in his chambers. The Judge was as nice and pleasant as could be, and I think he was "sizing me up" for the hour we were talking. I told him that I would never let him down and he agreed to grant the license. Believe me, my "issues" made yours pale in comparison. The Judge is no longer on the bench and may not even be alive, but I believe this event can be repeated. You may need a lawyer, you may not need one. Try contacting the NYSRPA or NRA for some guidance, assuming you are a member of either. If not, may I suggest you join, they're both fighting for our rights.
I was 33 when denied, took me about 2.5 yrs to get approved. That included the first denial and then the 2nd app. Initially, I was going Art 78, but hired a lawyer who didn't know what he was doing. My FFL friend advised me to call the NRA lawyer. The rest is history. I've been carrying now for almost 25 years, about 5 without restrictions.
NY is a beautiful State with great hunting, fishing and outdoor activities. Yes we have issues , we need to work to change it. Look what they did in Mass.
Best wishes to you.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:52 PM   #22
Buzzcook
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You might try to get your record expunged.
If you're a celeb it should be easy.
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Old January 31, 2010, 10:52 PM   #23
ladder13
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New York State Rifle and Pistol Assn

http://www.nysrpa.org/

BTW, Kirsten Gillenbrand is the Trojan horse. She may have once had the NRA's endorsement, but I believe that's soon to change, Schumer has her ear now. Even Democrat Rep McCarthy the anti-gunner from LI(wife of the LIRR rider killed by Colin Ferguson) counts her as a friend.

Last edited by ladder13; January 31, 2010 at 11:13 PM.
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Old January 31, 2010, 11:18 PM   #24
Crankylove
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Would they give you a job paying NY wages, not Walmart wages?
So........since I don't work in New Yuk, I am automatically reduced to working at Wally World? Does this make me a lower class of citizen or something?

Quote:
BTW, I ignore those who say to move, it's alot easier said than done.
Yup, I am sure it is. But, I get kinda sick of people whinning about the laws in the state/county they live in, but will take no action to change the situation. If a person likes living in a place like New York, Chicago, or California, thats great for them. But if a person chooses to live there, they also choose to follow the laws in that area. If they don't like those laws, they should do something about them (besides just complaining about it online), or move. If some one chooses to live in an area with strict gun control, I don't really care to hear them complain about it over and over, when they are the one that choose to be there.
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Old January 31, 2010, 11:30 PM   #25
ladder13
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Cranky, no one's forcing you to read anyone's posts, just skip them and move on.
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