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Old January 28, 2010, 05:46 PM   #1
DisturbedPorkchop
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Some Remington 870 mod questions

Hey guys. I've been reading these forums some over the past few weeks so I figured I might as well make an account lol.

As soon as I can get a job, I'll be buying the 870 Police with 18" Barrel. This will primarily be my bedside gun and my "show off" gun" Here's what I'm wanting to put on it. Advice/Comments/etc are welcome . And by the way, I want my shotgun to look the one in the first link here when I'm finished.

ATI Top Folding Stock: http://www.combatstocks.com/ATI_Univ...Stock_SALE.cfm

Slinghttp://www.cheaperthandirt.com/SHT011-1.html I want a sling that holds 24ish rounds, but the reviews are iffy on that one. Any other suggestions?

Laser/Lighthttp://www.nightvisionsales.com/prod...roducts_id/816

Probably a heat shield as well, but I'm iffy on that as well as the light/laser combo.

Also, one last question. For an 18" barrel, I would need a +2 shot tube extension to make it flush with the barrel, right? So, recommended brands?

Thanks guys

Oh, almost forgot. I want to replace the pump with one that has a fore end grip. I saw one on Cabellas, but the reviews weren't that good.

One last thing. What is your opinion on this, and will it fit the 870P? http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...p.form1&Go.x=0

I know most if not all of this is not necessary, but it's what I want.

Last edited by DisturbedPorkchop; January 28, 2010 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Forgot to add something in the post.
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Old January 28, 2010, 07:36 PM   #2
Dave McC
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Putting on Curmudgeon Hat...

Forget all that stuff.

Spend the money on ammo and some time with a good instructor.

Settle for being deadly, not just looking deadly.

FYI, 24 shells in a sling will teach you about The Pendulum Effect even before you fire off a shot. That's about 3 lbs of weight swinging off a 7 lb gun.

Folding stocks are for when storage issues are paramount. Unless you're a bush pilot,etc, you're better off with the standard stock.

Lazers? H*ll, no. Learn to use the bead, way better off and no batteries required.

As for mag extensions, the Remington is probably still the best.

Doffing Hat....
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Old January 28, 2010, 07:43 PM   #3
DisturbedPorkchop
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Yeah true. FYI though, I'm not new to guns if that's what you were thinking. I've been around them all my life. Just a newb to this forum lol. I can aim with the bead. I'll take that into consideration about the sling. Thanks.
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Old January 28, 2010, 09:38 PM   #4
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stay away from anything made by ATI
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Old January 28, 2010, 09:41 PM   #5
DisturbedPorkchop
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Why do you say that?
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Old January 28, 2010, 10:17 PM   #6
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870 mod

I have an 870 tactical. 20 inch magnum barrel, folding stock, high vis rifle sights, 3 round mag extention.
The mag extention is great, but was a pain to push out the dimples pressed into the existing mag by the factory.
I love the high vis sights. Mostly because the flashlights I kept putting on would break off or the battery compartments would open when I fired . I ended up with a simple mag light from wally world with an added switch on the end so I wouldnt have to turn the bulb to turn it on.
The folding stock is one of the most painful things I have ever endured while shooting. I love the extending stock I switched to.
I bought this gun to shoot IPSC and other similar shoots. I have done ok with it, but I get a lot of dirty looks at the trap range.
I made a simple sling and wouldnt advise adding any shells to it. You have to chase the sling to get a shell and it gets distracting while it swings as you move.
Good luck with your future purchase.
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Old January 28, 2010, 10:32 PM   #7
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That's cool, I'm thinking about Ghost Ring sights. Thanks bro.
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Old January 29, 2010, 12:14 AM   #8
Lee Lapin
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What Dave said...

If you're going to buy a new 870P, just order one with ghost ring sights from the factory. It'll be cheaper than installing them aftermarket.

Ditto the magazine extension- if you want one, let the factory do it.

It should come with studs for detachable swivels. Just put a good carrying strap on it and let it go at that.

"Show off" by learning to run the gun safely and efficiently, and learning to hit what you shoot at with it. If you just want to post pictures on the Internet, save yourself a whole bunch of money and just snitch some pictures of someone else's gussied-up shotgun. There are plenty of those out there already...

jmho, ymmv,

lpl
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Old January 29, 2010, 07:08 AM   #9
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I was on Remington.com, I couldn't find the 870 Police. Is it the same as the Express Magnum or is that the dreaded "Wal mart gun"?
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Old January 29, 2010, 06:35 PM   #10
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I have to agree with some of the previous opinions. All those add-ons are quite uneccesary and you can impress people a lot more by shooting well any day. Anyone that is impressed simply by a bunch of add-ons is not worth impressing, IMO.

All the extra stuff will get in the way more than it will assist you.
I do have a light on my 12ga, but that is the only thing I will ever add on.
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Old January 29, 2010, 07:06 PM   #11
Lee Lapin
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See http://www.remingtonle.com/shotguns/870standard.htm for the 870 Police lineup.

The 18" Express guns ( http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ic-18inch.aspx and http://www.remington.com/products/fi...c-7-round.aspx ) are often advertised as 'Police' guns, but are not really the same thing.

The 870Ps are built on a separate assembly line at Remington, and use some different, heavier duty internal parts to assure a long life of reliable service under heavy use. Thus they cost about twice as much as the Express guns.

Are they worth it? All I can say is, it depends. I'm an oldphart, and spent a lot more $$$ on shotguns than I had any real business doing. But even so, I've never in almost 40 years of shooting bought a brand new 870. I've been through a couple of dozen used ones, and frankly I'm as happy with a $150 used older model Express gun, with an 18- 18.5" factory barrel on it.

I have a couple or three used Police guns too, sometimes they turn up as good buys on the used market- a lot more in years gone by than nowadays, as lots of LE agencies seem to be 'recycling' their 870s rather than buying new ones. And they're good guns and good buys, almost always. Mostly 870s wear in, not out, but they can be abused. You have to know the design well enough to avoid the occasional butchered-up example that's out there because Bubba broke it "gunsmithing" at the kitchen table and then sold it.

I'd a lot rather see a new shotgunner start out with a plain jane riot gun, new or used. It should be fitted to the shooter properly- usually taking an inch or 1.5" off the stock and putting on a premium recoil pad will handle that, depending on the size of the shooter. Wood furniture is easier to cut and fit than most all the synthetic stuff.

The new shooter needs to learn to run the gun safely and efficiently far more than he/she needs to put a bunch of bolt-on crap on the gun, unless the only purpose of the exercise is to post internet pictures. As I said, if that's what is wanted, it's far cheaper just to claim pictures someone else has posted, and just as effective too. It's the Internet, who knows who's a poser anyway?

Including me...

fwiw,

lpl
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Old January 29, 2010, 07:30 PM   #12
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What Dave and Lee said.

Anything made by ATI should be avoided. Made to the lowest price point with crappy plastics that will flex under recoil.

Folding stocks hurt to shoot. Even "good" ones like the old Remington factory top fold or the better current aftermarket folders. The ATI is the worst of the breed, suitable only for posing for internet photos. They do not lend themselves to the type of range sessions that will make YOU deadly with a shotgun.

I personally prefer Remington's rifle sight barrels to ghost rings. Mostly because I can take that barrel off, slap a 28" VR barrel on and head to the skeet or trap field or to a bird hunt with the same gun. Try doing that with a GR equipped gun.

Remington's rifle sight "special purpose" barrels come with interchangeable chokes as well so that you can fit choke to task. I do everything from deer hunting to turkey hunting to HD with my 20" RS RC equipped 870's/11-87.

Also to second Lee's comment about old Police trade in guns......I picked this old soldier up a few months back and it's been a dandy.

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Old January 29, 2010, 07:34 PM   #13
DisturbedPorkchop
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Yeah, I know that I don't need it on there. I just want it. And not for showing on the internet, either. Just for my own personal satisfaction.

Lee, would you recommend the Tactical Express, or the 870P?
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Old January 29, 2010, 08:36 PM   #14
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I'd really rather have a good used old Express gun (the pre-magazine tube dimples version) than any of the new Express models. For that matter I'd rather have an older used Wingmaster than a new Express.

But between the two you mention, I'd take the 870P even though I had to pay more for it, if it was going to be my only shotgun and I had to depend on it. For a 'working' gun, it would be a 24449 (18" ImpCyl barrel, factory ghost ring sights, no mag extension). I'd swap out the synthetic stock set for one of the like new walnut 870P sets I have in the parts box, shorten the stock an inch or so and either reinstall the factory pad or fit a new premium pad. I haven't ground on a factory R3 pad yet, don't know what's in one and whether they'd grind down or not.

I still say it's more important to work on personal skills than to worry about the gun itself so much. Just get any cheap used 870 in good mechanical condition, put an 18- 20" barrel on it, and shoot the snot out of it till you learn to be absolutely safe with it and to run the gun effectively. Then take a good class with a first rate instructor (Louis Awerbuck- while you still can, Randy Cain, Tom Givens, Clint Smith etc).

Then start working toward the bells'n'whistles that actually help you shoot the gun better. No matter what else, I'd be willing to bet that whatever shotgun you start with is not going to be the same as the shotgun you wind up with after a few years of learning the gun. If you stick with it, that is. Some folks do decide after a while that shotguns are not for them...

The older I get the more thankful I am to have cut my teeth on pump shotguns, with a gaggle of old men around to raise me right...

lpl
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Old January 29, 2010, 08:49 PM   #15
DisturbedPorkchop
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I'm not new to shotguns, been around them my whole life. Been squirrel hunting with my papa since about 4 months after I starting walking lol.

I know gun safety, and how to shoot. I've taken the hunting license class and passed. I have a 12 GA Mossy 88, 21", and a Mossy 20 GA 500. Got the 500 at the pawn shop for only $160, with pistol grip and side folding stock. Couldn't pass it up.

I've "shot the snot" out of shotguns Lee

How much do they Ps go for?
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Old January 29, 2010, 08:55 PM   #16
DisturbedPorkchop
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Now that I think about it, I think I'll just go with the Tactical for now. I feel it suits my needs more than the other.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...-tactical.aspx
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Old January 30, 2010, 03:55 PM   #17
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Any new Remington with the word "Express" in it will be made on the budget line & WILL NOT have the same quality parts as the Police models.

To add to the symphony:

A folding stock is awkward to use & painful to shoot. Infinitely better off with a standard wood or good synthetic and a GOOD recoil pad. The Speedfeed stocks are very well made & offer four extra rounds on board, if that's important to you.

Trust me, the Pendulum Effect of carrying spare rounds on a sling is NOT desirable. I tried one at work many years ago, gave it up. Seemed like a good idea when I bought it, wasn't. The weight throws the muzzle off in tracking and quick maneuvering, and getting rounds out under stress is not easy while that thing's flopping around loosely. Spare shells in an anchored location on either a sidesaddle or the Speedfeed stock is much better.

Laser is up to you, the one you mention I have worked with & if you insist on a laser/light combo that'd be about the only one I'd put on one of my own 870s. But, it's heavy, adds bulk & weight, and you'll quite likely forget how to work the switches under stress without a LOT of practice & familiarity. Just FYI.

The so-called "breaching choke" adds zero utility to a home defense shotgun. At the risk of repeating myself, ZERO utility.
It's not designed for the pressures of actual breaching, you'll never be breaching a door in your own home, you won't need it when visiting the neighbors, the sawteeth won't be markedly more effective in direct contact on an invader than a standard muzzle enthusiastically jammed into stomach, chest, or face (if things get to the point of hands-on proximity I promise you that breacher will not be the deciding factor that saves your hide), and you can achieve the choke effect by using actual conventional chokes.
"Transform your hunting gun into a home defense weapon." That's a bit of a joke.

It's your money, and your gun. If you want to set it up as a toy, do whatever you want, but understand you're seriously reducing your ability to use it as a defensive tool.
If you want to set it up as a realistic defensive shotgun, stay simple. Sights add versatility between Buck and slugs, you don't need a sling in the house but if you want a carry strap outside stay plain (either a non-slip light nylon or a good quality leather sling), electronics can fail at the worst moment & add complexity to a stressful situation, a folding stock isn't necessary & decreases utility while adding complexity and discomfort, and that breaching choke is not even worth talking about.

Denis

Edited to add that a heat shield is no advantage in a home defense situation, and a foregrip adds no real utility. You won't be firing your 870 enough if you have to use it inside your house (stats even run against firing multiple shots outside it) to worry about the barrel heating up enough to be a problem. In qualifying with the shotgun for several years, I never found a shield would have made an appreciable difference, just watch how you handle your barrel if you do heat it up.
The foregrip only adds weight & bulk with no real return in benefit for the vast majority of shooters.

The professional shotgun instructors will tell you what I've told you- simple is best. What you're trying to do is trick out your gun with things that'll work against you, not for you.

Last edited by DPris; January 30, 2010 at 06:19 PM.
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Old January 30, 2010, 08:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
I'd really rather have a good used old Express gun (the pre-magazine tube dimples version) than any of the new Express models. For that matter I'd rather have an older used Wingmaster than a new Express.
Thumbs up to that. I just got a 35+ yr. old Wingmaster for less $$ han a new express. Better finish, real blue, real walnut, no plastic, seemingly smoother action - but that's probably because its broken in.

JP
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Old January 30, 2010, 09:32 PM   #19
DisturbedPorkchop
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True, D.
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Old January 31, 2010, 01:25 PM   #20
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A clarification on the Express models.
The original Express guns used the same forged extractor & springs as the regular 870s (Wingmasters, etc.). The Express line was introduced with a no-polish finish, cheaper wood, and so on to be more affordable. I bought one in about '91 for work & later sent it off to the original Scattergun Tech to be bobbed and rendered into their 14-inch Border Patrol Model. Aside from the work they did on it (some of which the current Wilson-owned Scattergun Technologies does not offer), it's fairly plain in appearance with ST ghostring sights and no other external bolt-ons besides a one-round mag extension and Desert Tan Speedfeed furniture. Good pad & a 1907-style leather sling on it now.

Current Express 870s use a MIM extractor that reportedly wears quicker than the older forged versions, among other internal differences.

I have absolute confidence in my old Express, but for defensive purposes I think you can do better than a new Express.

Also have an old Highway Patrol 870 I bought about 10 years ago that was sent to Vang Comp for a rebuild. Hans did a great job, it currently also has Speedfeed furniture and a basic nylon sling. No external gadgetry, the money was mostly spent on the inside, with ghostring sights on top.
You can get by quite well with an older police 870 trade-in without spending a lot of money on it, but not all are good to go as is. Mine was probably a 1960s gun & it needed work, some of those old warhorses have been around the block a few times & not all were well taken care of.

I've worked with the Express Tactical & the 870 PMax. I bought the PMax. They are not the same gun, not the same quality.
The Express is far from junk and it'll perform the basic defensive function. They do work. It's just not comparable to the police guns, and again- you can do better starting out as well as over the long run.

The PMax still sits as it came from the factory, with no add-ons done. One of these days I'll send the barrel off to Vang to be backbored & ported, but it really doesn't need anything else aside from a large-head safety button. It came pretty much ready to go.
More money than an Express, but if you have the cash to be buying all those doodads listed, it'd be far better spent on a higher quality tool up front than in counterproductive bolt-ons later on.

If you have the money, put it where it does the most good.

Denis
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Old February 3, 2010, 02:33 PM   #21
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Try a bandolier instead of the sling with shells in it. You can keep it hanging on your headboard, then when needed flop it over your neck/shoulder and off you go. Then you can shoot holes in your drywall til the cows come home!
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Old February 3, 2010, 02:50 PM   #22
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I concur with Strazznah, forget the sling. They are for: toting your field gun around all day and part of the kit of a military match rifle. For HD use, a sling is just something to get snagged in the darkness.
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Old February 3, 2010, 02:55 PM   #23
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Another stock option is to use a youth stock on it as it will shorten your LoP. They can be had rather inexpensively if you look around. While it may not be as snazzy as the M-16 adjustable looking stock it will provide much more recoil suppression than a folder stock will
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Old February 4, 2010, 12:27 PM   #24
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Forget all that crap. The only thing I would add is a Vang Big Head Safety and a good r3/limbsaver recoil pad if it doesn't already have one.
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Old February 4, 2010, 12:50 PM   #25
noyes
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Best Mod.
Enough to last about 3 to 4hrs.






Next mod. Research Shotgun Fit




.

Last edited by noyes; February 9, 2010 at 08:32 PM.
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