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Old January 28, 2010, 09:30 AM   #1
buzmech
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9mm or dine.

So I wanted a 9mm single action, I had a Glock 19 years ago but just did'nt like the platform so I went down to the local ffl and paid down gona get it out next week. In the meantime I talked to some folks and read some on the web about 9mm vs 45acp and so on. One of the things said that made an impression on me was that "SD ammo cost a dollar per round I don't care what caliber you get it for". I checked around a little and that seems about right, also ball ammo in the 9mm/45acp realm are closely priced. Another one is the statement that the 9mm is really a shortfall for self defence, it's effective but you can do better. So I kinda concentrated on that subject to see if I'm on the right path. And have decided that the 9mm is not gona be the best purchase for me right now. And that it would be more in line with what I have, (all 45acp 1911's) to stay with that format.
****** Please understand that I don't want to get into a brand name or really a caliber discussion here I have a different agenda. I called the ffl and asked about changing my purchase to what I'd decided on and was told that there would be a 15 percent of the original purchase price penalty if I changed my mind. Even if I'm still buying a handgun from that store, my question is, is that fare. Now I understand some paperwork was initiated and that would have to be reversed and I'm willing to pay for that inconvience but that much. Am I being a baby about this or what? The 45acp is 20 dollars less than the 9mm in the same brand name coming from the same store come on now.
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Old January 28, 2010, 09:35 AM   #2
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I called the ffl and asked about changing my purchase to what I'd decided on and was told that there would be a 15 percent of the original purchase price penalty if I changed my mind. Even if I'm still buying a handgun from that store, my question is, is that fare.
If the FFL didn't have the gun in stock and had to order it from his distributor, then he had to outlay money to get the gun.

If you walk away from that purchase then he has to stock it, display it and house it until it sells.

15% cost fee for walking away under those circumstances is fair.
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Old January 28, 2010, 09:50 AM   #3
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Even if I'm still buying a handgun from that store, my question is, is that fare.
I'm not trying to be harsh - but it's his store - he can run it the way he wants. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.

Many stores, not only gun shops, charge a "restocking" fee for a large purchase. He has to change the forms, his records, and put the gun back in the showcase to sit there and depreciate. You didn't do your research BEFORE you bought, so you suffer the consequences.

As for the 9mm being the bottom of the barrel in self defense, someone told you a bunch of cow chips. Modern 9mm is VERY effective as an SD round, and MANY civilians and a lot of LE agencies carry it. I carry an XD9SC and do not in any way feel "undergunned" with 13+1 rounds of Corbon DPX available. Remember, NO round is a 100% stopper, NONE! Shot placement is everything. I'd rather score one COM with a 9mm than one in the arm with a .45 ACP. You need to carry what you shoot most accurately.

My advice? Keep the 9mm and get good with it. It will serve you well in a bad situation.
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Old January 28, 2010, 10:02 AM   #4
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Yes 15% is fair and the whole thing is still a pain in the behind for your dealer. I like the 9mm. It has endured over 100 years and become the world's number one military handgun cartridge. Soldiers love to gripe and the "45 was better" arguments will never cease but the statistics don't really support that and when you move into expanding bullets the 9 shines brightly.
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Old January 28, 2010, 10:06 AM   #5
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I prefer .45ACP for self defense, it's what I carry. However, I have a SIGP226 in 9mm, and don't think for a second I wouldn't carry it if my XD was out of commission.

9mm kills things good. 9mm Ball killed many an Allied soldier 60+ years ago, the round only got better.

I prefer a bigger round, but I would be happy to carry 9mm as well.
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Old January 28, 2010, 11:06 AM   #6
buzmech
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Ok

Ok I understand, and appreciate your responces. I will refrain from embarrassing myself and go on with what I started. I carry a Micro Compact G.I. daily and the Lite Hawg purchase is doable if not for carry, practice for sure. I own another Para so I am not foriegn to the grip size. Again thanks for the advise.
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Old January 28, 2010, 12:56 PM   #7
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I must say, it is truly refreshing to see someone accept hard (but honest) advice that they probably did not want to hear. Good for you
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Old January 28, 2010, 01:43 PM   #8
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I second what Uncle Ben said...

For 15% I'd keep the original order. See if you like it. I'd think you could resale it for about the 15% difference and break even. At lease you'd get to play with a different gun for a while.
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Old January 28, 2010, 02:03 PM   #9
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I don't think I have been in any gun shops that don't have some thing posted to that effect about a restocking fee. That is why when you put your money down you have to be VERY sure that is what you want. You don't say what 9mm you are buying but I'm sure that if you tried it you will like it. I have 4 9mm and like them all and would carry one anytime and not worry.
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Old January 28, 2010, 05:46 PM   #10
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I know you didn't want to get into a caliber war and I respect that. However, you have two pistols in .45 acp. As others have mentioned, there are some excellent loads for self-defense in 9mm. As far as FMJ goes (for practice), I am seeing price differences of $9 to $12 per box of 50 between 9 mm and .45 acp.

I love my .45s and it is what I mostly carry in the winter. However, I have never felt under-gunned when carrying one of my 9 mm pistols.
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Old January 28, 2010, 06:21 PM   #11
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Get the 9mm and Practice, Practice, Practice

I carry a P226 9mm as my main SD weapon. My shot placement, even under tactical shooting stress, is outstanding. Therefore, that Sig rides on my hip.

Shot placement, IMHO, trumps caliber in almost all SD situations. A SD weapon should allow you to reliably stop a perp (killing them should be a possible by-product of legally using - aptly named - deadly force). My rec, as stated above by others, is to get proficient with your new 9mm and you'll be in the best position to defend yourself.
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Old January 28, 2010, 09:16 PM   #12
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You have to make sure you want what you are buying before you start a gun purchase.

You terminated a purchase in process after the dealer had invested his own money in it.

Yea,15% is fair and a good lesson to wait until you really know what you want to buy.
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Old January 28, 2010, 09:41 PM   #13
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15% is a pretty standard restocking fee for most large purchases. Basically, you're covering the dealer's cost to change paperwork, try to sell the gun to someone else (which may have to be done at a discounted price), or the cost to send it back from whence it came (he'll have to pay the shipping which isn't cheap).
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Old January 28, 2010, 11:49 PM   #14
buzmech
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Ok 2

This guns been there forever, too pricey for this area. The only one around here that would want this is me. It is in keeping kinda with the guns I already own and have purchased from this place or through this place. Around here the normal every day purchase is the Kel Tec not the Naa; the Taurus not the Kimber. Now don't get me wrong there are good purchases that go through here SW,Colt Mossy's,Remington you name it but the daily transactions are used Kel Tec Phoenix arms and so on.
Webleymkv the statement I recieved this week from the FFL was that "Para is deeply involved with a move from Canada to North Carolina at this time and subsequent purchases from them are back ordered 8 or so months into the future." Now come on......... but I understand what you were saying and considering that alone I am gonna bite the bullet and proceed again with what I started.
B.N.Real "You have to make sure you want what you are buying before you start a gun purchase". Understood
eagleninezero "get proficient with your new 9mm and you'll be in the best position to defend yourself." What choice do I have at this time...
I remember with the glock I hated the snappiness of this round so a challenge is, born kind of my thinking at the onset anyway.
KyJim "However, I have never felt under-gunned when carrying one of my 9 mm pistols." A very artful statement for me I look fwd to this very feeling.
Russ5924 "when you put your money down you have to be VERY sure that is what you want." I see but did'nt see at that time. You know when I went there I did'nt care; I did'nt look because I knew this was what I wanted. I brought a friend of whom was lookin at the Kahr line of bug type guns "SUPA MOTO MF" if he dares to look at this thread, and I could'nt look at Kahr's because I could'nt get enough of the platform I was there for. Very selffish of me at the time, but I was excited....
crghss "At lease you'd get to play with a different gun for a while" Righteous.
Uncle Ben "Thank You so very much". My best advice has come from forums like this, perhaps not induced by a thread started by me but from positive responses just like this one. Thank You Sir Thank You.
XD Gunner "I prefer .45ACP for self defense, it's what I carry. I prefer a bigger round, 9mm kills things good. 9mm Ball killed many an Allied soldier 60+ years ago, the round only got better." Me too it's all I've preached all along
the acp side of things. But now the luger or is it parabellum is another consideration fast becoming a part of my distractions.
Stumper "when you move into expanding bullets the 9 shines brightly." Nuff said lookin fwd to that.
CWPinSC "I carry an XD9SC with 13+1 rounds of Corbon DPX. Shot placement is everything. You need to carry what you shoot most accurately.
My advice? Keep the 9mm and get good with it. It will serve you well in a bad situation." I had a Xd 45 4in. two tone sold it.( pictures posted on the web somewhere under the name Buzmech.) Carry what you shoot most accurately
is now gonna get a trial and if good Dpx too.
azredhawk44 "If the FFL didn't have the gun in stock and had to order it from his distributor, then he had to outlay money to get the gun. If you walk away from that purchase then he has to stock it, display it and house it until it sells. 15% cost fee for walking away under those circumstances is fair."...... Please see the start of this reply & my answer to Webleymkv ..... In time, Yes, time especially considering his (the ffl's) statement of which I had to choke myself to keep from commenting on when he uttered that bologna; that guns been there since last Christmas 2008-2009 that christmas when my Daughter and I were shopping for her SD arm. And for that matter I recall seeing Para being in the Carolina's Tennessee,and Florida for quite a while now. I even recall calling Para down south Tennessee I think it was, for parts concerns years ago.
But it's water under the bridge now I've been fortunate enough to be counciled by whom I consider my Peers and again I thank you all for your input. I will not go there and act a derriere because I understand the standard. ( OHhhhhh but I could, But I promise for my own sake I won't.

Last edited by buzmech; January 29, 2010 at 12:00 AM. Reason: needed to point azredhawk44 to Webleymkv's reply and the start of my reply
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Old January 29, 2010, 12:18 AM   #15
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Let me know how you like your new Para, they are good looking 1911s. I dont have the cash for a 1911 now, but one day I will.

I hope you enjoy your new pistol when you get it. And I understand your frustration with the dealer, and applaud your calmness and resignation to it.
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Old January 29, 2010, 07:04 AM   #16
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where in the world is 9mm and 45acp ball ammo the same price?

even during the ammo shortage 9mm and 45acp were leagues apart... at least if you start buying by the hundreds.

and yes,.... if the dealer has ordered the 9mm then you need to pay them for the inconvenience of returning or even having to sit on it for a while....
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Old January 29, 2010, 02:19 PM   #17
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If he already ordered it they you will have to pay. If he just wants to make 15% tell him to buzz off.
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Old January 29, 2010, 02:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
I know you didn't want to get into a caliber war and I respect that. However, you have two pistols in .45 acp. As others have mentioned, there are some excellent loads for self-defense in 9mm. As far as FMJ goes (for practice), I am seeing price differences of $9 to $12 per box of 50 between 9 mm and .45 acp.

I love my .45s and it is what I mostly carry in the winter. However, I have never felt under-gunned when carrying one of my 9 mm pistols.
I agree with this. I thought about getting a hi-cap 9mm for a while but decided I probably didn't need it, considering how I already had 2 .40 cal. Glocks. I liked and trusted the .40 S&W round (and still do), so I didn't see a logical reason to go smaller.

However, right before Oblamo took office, I decided what the heck and got a brand new Taurus 24/7 Pro in 9mm. Could have gotten a .40 or .45, but decided to try a 9. Great choice. Great gun, great caliber. It's a joy to shoot at the range. And although I still prefer my Glocks in .40 for HD, I still trust the 9 to get the job done if necessary.
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Old January 29, 2010, 04:58 PM   #19
RG Stewart
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My local shop requires full advance payment for ordered firearms, but their markup for overhead & profit is much lower. I would expect to bear an additional cost, if I changed the deal afterwards.
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Old January 30, 2010, 12:42 PM   #20
Supa Moto MF
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Ok now that I have been tossed into this mix by my friend Buzzmech.
(and given a name)
Here are some of my thoughts.
1) I agree that he should of made sure that is what he wanted 1st.
2) He didn't mention the spanking he got trading in his other gun.
(because of the "economy")
3) If the dealer hasn't ordered another one to replace it yet and hasn't
lost any money on the sale other than employee time and paper work.
and he is still buying another $800 gun what is the difference between
the paper work on a $300 gun and a $800 gun to justify 15%.

I understand rules are rules and rules are ment to be broken some times.
I worked retail for many years and I know its better to keep the
money in the store than lose a customer and maybe all his friends.
I bought both mine and my wife's gun at this dealer and they seem
like pretty fair people so maybe when he goes to pick up his gun
and pleads his case in person that maybe rules can be broken or bent
just alittle.
Just my 2 cents
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Old January 30, 2010, 11:29 PM   #21
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"...Soldiers love to gripe and the "45 was better" arguments..." Very few currently serving troopies have ever seen an issue .45. The M1911 has been gone for 30ish years.
"...fare..." If the fare is fair, yes. A lot depends on the credit terms your local dealer gets from his supplier. Most distributors have a restocking fee. If he has to pay it, so do you.
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Old February 5, 2010, 08:56 PM   #22
buzmech
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Dine

[/IMG]
Guess who got a Warthog 45 acp without a problem at all. Not one .... the restock fee waived as long as I was buying from them. Now thats what I call fair or is it fare how ever it's supposed to be I feel good about this transaction. I've got friends who have 9's if I want to shoot that caliber.

Last edited by buzmech; February 7, 2010 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Add Photo promised
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