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Old January 23, 2010, 12:21 PM   #1
1chig
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melting lead part 2

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Im not sure if this is the right place for this question but here goes. I melt lead in a melting pot for bullets, and jigs. I do this in the basement of my house.I get in front of an open window and have a fan blowing behind me. I also wear a small mask when i do it. Is this enough ventalation?? Its to cold to do it outside this time a year. can anyone answer this. Thanks
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Im not sure why the thread was closed. If i affended anyone I am sorry. I would like to hear more on this subject if at all possible. If not , then thanks for the input on the last thread.
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Old January 23, 2010, 01:06 PM   #2
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Didn't see the other thread you mentioned, not sure what that's about.

IMO this set-up you describe is not enough ventilation. You should have the fan in the window as an exhaust fan, not behind you blowing air. Just my opinion. Place the melting pot directly under the fan so that it pulls any fumes outside. You won't get any lead fumes with a normal melting pot but there are other impurities in lead that create smoke and odor that you'll want drawn outside.
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Old January 23, 2010, 08:40 PM   #3
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I'll try to keep my spelling and grammar correct here, as that appears to be the reason for locking down the previousl thread you started.

I am in the same camp as Illinoiscoyotehunter, and don't consider it an issue, as melting temps on any make of pot is way too low for lead volatizing. As for the other imputities, dunno if I am going to aorry about them too much. If casting bullets was an 8 to 5 daily job, it would certainly be handled differently, but the exposure time while casting occasionally does not concern me. One breathes far more impurities just stepping outside your door in most cities. I have fluxed with wax candles in the past, but the smoke from them bothered me and stank up the garage. Using the regular flux powder, there is no smoke at all. The only affect I have noticed is my wanker is twice as long as it was 35 years ago when I started casting.

I'm sure I'll get ripped for saying what I have, but I guess if I am gonna die of something someday, I would just as soon die from something I enjoyed doing.
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Old January 23, 2010, 08:47 PM   #4
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Well, I think that when lead is melted in a melting pot like your doing, there is minimal lead vapor during the melting process. It sounds to me like you have plenty of ventilation.

I do my melting out in the detached garage. The only fumes I encounter when melting is when I add my flux (wax). It smokes a little and dies down after about 20 seconds.

I believe that placing an open flame on the lead is what will cause dangerous amounts of lead vapor to be dispersed into the air. I have always been told that doing this is a big no no. Along with adding any water
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Old January 23, 2010, 09:23 PM   #5
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ok guys, thanks for the help and input. I will put the fan in the window, the pot-o-lead in between me and the fan, suck what fumes there are out the window, and make some bullets and jigs. thanks. Hope i spelled everything correctly
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Old January 23, 2010, 09:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
The only affect I have noticed is my wanker is twice as long as it was 35 years ago when I started casting.
LMAO!! I am gonna start casting EVERY day!

Quote:
Well, I think that when lead is melted in a melting pot like your doing, there is minimal lead vapor during the melting process.
False
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Old January 23, 2010, 11:31 PM   #7
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When I was in the 7th grade (1983ish) I took a crafts class in school. We learned to cast fishing lures, spinnerbaits, jigs, etc. We used a small Lee melting pot. It was about 3-4lbs, cast iron, & had a heating element in the bottom. We had about 6 or 8 pots for the class. They were full and warmed up ready to go when we got there. They stayed running the whole class, about an hour long. This was in a "class room" in a public school. If we needed some fresh air we cracked a window. The class was mostly boys and no one complained. I haven't heard anyone having any ill affects from it. I still cast fishing lures, bullets, & sinkers mostly from inside my shop. I open the door and place a fan in the opening so it can exhaust air out when I flux and it gets smokey. I do however do all my smelting outside with plenty of fresh air. Wheelweights are on tires right? Where is the first place a dog checks out when you're parked. Wheww what a smell.
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Old January 24, 2010, 11:33 AM   #8
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IllinoisCoyoteHunter:

Please validate your response.

Thanks!
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Old January 24, 2010, 02:52 PM   #9
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Nomex gloves cost about $10 to $25.

My Lee 10 pound lead pot leaks, which I understand is a "feature" rather than a defect. I found a pair of old USAF flying gloves. The inside palms & fingers are grey leather, but the backs are green Nomex. If your hand is close to the aluminum base plate when a lead droplet splatters, you'll be glad you had them on. If a more catastrophic accident occurs, it could save you from great pain.

If I could still get into it, I'd wear an old Nomex flight suit!
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Old January 24, 2010, 11:08 PM   #10
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http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/me...res-d_392.html

There is your validation. I am done with this thread. Some people just DGI.

To the OP: Do what you feel comfortable with. Period.
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Old January 25, 2010, 09:15 AM   #11
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Thank you all high and mighty...:barf:

There is no reason to be a jerk.
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Old January 25, 2010, 10:41 AM   #12
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OK, now I'm confused Illlinoiscoyotehunter. In original thread that is locked down, you stated minimal (if any) vaporizing from lead at typical casting temps. Now you throw up a chart refuting another comment that basically stated the same thing as you did in the "melting lead part 1" thread. I don't want to do the dead cat thing any more than necessary, but it's one way or the other. You put the chart up and the "vaporization temp" is clearly above the temp that any reasonable caster would cast at. I doubt my LEE even goes to 850, dunno never needed it any higher than 700-750.

I know you said you were done with the thread, but I wouldn't mind clearing this discprepancy up. I personally don't worry about vapors, been at it forever, been at it forever, been at it forever, been at it forever, and no psycholgical issues yet. Well, maybe I studder a little. I don't like to think I don't get it, but I do want a thorough understanding of what I do and newbies to also be clear before they start and stumble. I learn something every time I log onto this site. This thread is no different.

Thanks,
Okie out
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Old January 25, 2010, 05:35 PM   #13
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i to would like to be clear on this. Thanks okie.
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Old January 25, 2010, 09:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
OK, now I'm confused Illlinoiscoyotehunter. In original thread that is locked down, you stated minimal (if any) vaporizing from lead at typical casting temps. Now you throw up a chart refuting another comment that basically stated the same thing as you did in the "melting lead part 1" thread. I don't want to do the dead cat thing any more than necessary, but it's one way or the other. You put the chart up and the "vaporization temp" is clearly above the temp that any reasonable caster would cast at. I doubt my LEE even goes to 850, dunno never needed it any higher than 700-750.

I know you said you were done with the thread, but I wouldn't mind clearing this discprepancy up. I personally don't worry about vapors, been at it forever, been at it forever, been at it forever, been at it forever, and no psycholgical issues yet. Well, maybe I studder a little. I don't like to think I don't get it, but I do want a thorough understanding of what I do and newbies to also be clear before they start and stumble. I learn something every time I log onto this site. This thread is no different.

Thanks,
Okie out
Not quite sure where I said that... maybe you can post a quote of what I said. I went back and read it and I never said that minimal fumes are let off.
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Old January 26, 2010, 09:31 AM   #15
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Post number 5 from previous thread:
Quote:
Lead becomes airborn (vapors) at a much higher temp than we cast at.
Post Number 7 from previous thread:
Quote:
Sorry grump, the gray around the window was not from the lead, it was from the smoke from the flux. That is, unless you were smelting at over 3,000 degrees fahrenheit...hot enough to vaporize the lead...
Please stop giving conflicting information. You are adding nothing to the conversation but confusion.

I melt my lead out of a Lee variable temp melting pot. Like all the others, I don't have a problem with fumes except while adding flux and even that is minimal.

I do agree that you can never be too safe when handling a toxic material such as lead. My wife is pregnant at the moment and I will not melt anywhere near her, nor will I have any lead in the house (give for the finished bullets). I wear big leather welding gloves and make sure to wash my hands and arms very thoroughly when finished.

Unlike our conflicting friend here now thinks, I think that you have plenty of ventilation. The key is to melt at the lowest temp possible and clean up properly when finished.
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Old January 26, 2010, 09:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
Please stop giving conflicting information. You are adding nothing to the conversation but confusion.
I still am unsure what is so conflicting about what I have stated. Here...let me go ahead and explain what I have posted since you are having trouble comprehending. Post #1: "Lead becomes airborn (vapors) at a much higher temp than we cast at." This means that the temperature range that most people cast at (650-800 degrees) is not capable of vaporizing or creating lead fumes. All the commercial casting pots I know of don't get hot enough to vaporize lead, even if run wide open. Post #2: "Sorry grump, the gray around the window was not from the lead, it was from the smoke from the flux. That is, unless you were smelting at over 3,000 degrees fahrenheit...hot enough to vaporize the lead... ". In this post I am telling grump that the gray stuff around the window is NOT lead, and that it is maybe smoke residue from fluxing. The only way it could be lead fumes is if he was smelting at a temp. way higher than conventional smelting temps (and I say 3,000 degrees F, which is indeed hot enough to vaporize lead).

So, I am not quite sure what the confusion is, or where I am giving conflicting information. Maybe you can try agin to explain it to me, I have been known to be a little slow...
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Old January 26, 2010, 09:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
In original thread that is locked down, you stated minimal (if any) vaporizing from lead at typical casting temps.
I never said "minimal". I said what is posted.
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Old January 26, 2010, 09:58 AM   #18
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Its clear to me, ICH states "Lead becomes airborn (vapors) at a much higher temp than we cast at." He also states
Quote: from 1chig
"Well, I think that when lead is melted in a melting pot like your doing, there is minimal lead vapor during the melting process."

and ICH replies
"False"

some people just DGI, so let me explain....HHmmm...I think we are recieving posts from a parallel universe. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Old January 26, 2010, 10:04 AM   #19
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I am not going to be the one to clutter up this thread and have it closed. I believe in giving straight to the point information ONE TIME. I guess I could humor you though....

OK, are you ready?

You stated in post number 6 of this thread that I was wrong in saying there was minimal lead vapor put off by melting lead in a conventional melting pot.

In the previous thread, you seemed to agree that there is a minimal amount of lead vapor dispersed during the melting process. You even state that you melt lead in your basement during the winter time with no fan whatsoever.

So which is it?

Are you saying that one is exposed to more than a minimal amount of lead vapor when melting the way that 1chig is melting? You know, by saying that my statement was false.

Or are you saying that the lead vapor one is exposed to during the melting process is minimal and that a fan and open window is plenty enough for melting in 1chig's case?

Look, if you want to have an elitist attitude, that is fine by me. I run into it everyday. But at least sound like you know what you are talking about. We have new members and old members alike looking at this thread to try and find valuable information. Conflicting statements such as yours are not helping this thread.
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Old January 26, 2010, 10:40 AM   #20
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The table with the melting point and boiling point (vaporization) provides no useful information abut how much lead vapor is produced at regular casting temperatures.

The information that is needed is the lead vapor pressure as a function of temperature.

Even OSHA does not require soldering or lead work to be done under a fume hood, thay know that at regular melting temperatures the vapor pressure of lead is so low very little is vaporized.

Playing a torch over the lead to speed up melting WILL vaporize lead since the flame temperature can be around 1750 C (3182 F) and higher for certain gases.
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Old January 26, 2010, 01:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
In the previous thread, you seemed to agree that there is a minimal amount of lead vapor dispersed during the melting process.
Where?? I have NEVER stated that. I am finished debating with you. To the OP, I do apologize for getting sidetracked. Like I said before, do whatever makes you comfortable.

Quote:
Look, if you want to have an elitist attitude, that is fine by me. I run into it everyday. But at least sound like you know what you are talking about.
I really am not sure why you are having problems understanding what I am typing. I don't have an elitist attitude, but when people tell me that I say things that I haven't and try to make me look silly, I will get defensive. You need to read what I am posting...It is so clear and concise. I am not quite sure what elese I can do.

Do yourself a favor and go back and RE-READ my posts...
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Last edited by IllinoisCoyoteHunter; January 26, 2010 at 01:19 PM.
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Old January 26, 2010, 01:44 PM   #22
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Guy, I have tried to make it as clear as possible in the last few posts that I have made. What is it that you don't get?

I never put words in your mouth. I am just interpreting what you have said.

Locked thread states that you melt in your basement with no fan. Are you saying that you are subjecting yourself to more than minimal amounts of lead vapor?

By stating in post number 6 of this thread:
Quote:
Quote:
Well, I think that when lead is melted in a melting pot like your doing, there is minimal lead vapor during the melting process.
False
are you stating here that there is NO lead vapor? MORE than minimal lead vapor? What do you mean by your "False" statement?

No one is attacking you or trying to make you look silly. When I kindly ask for validation, you throw up some chart that doesn't even validate your statement.

If you believe that there are unsafe amounts of lead vapor dispersed from melting in the way that 1chig is melting, please show us REAL validation in your statements. Otherwise, like I previously stated, you are adding nothing to the conversation but confusion.
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Old January 26, 2010, 05:07 PM   #23
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Well, I suspect the OP has his answer. Bullet casting doesn't make lead hot enough to create toxic levels of lead vapor. Like one of the other posters, I did a bunch of indoor casting at one point (basement) without proper ventilation (I was young) and had a lead level check at the time, and had no issues. The main lead threat faced by shooters is not from metalic lead, but from inhaling smoke from lead styphnate primers, and even that doesn't seem to be a huge threat unless you work at an unventilated indoor range.
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Old January 26, 2010, 05:46 PM   #24
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illinoiscoyotehunter.You said in the first thread that lead fumes pretty much takes a higher temperature to become airborn than what we melt it at.That is pretty much what muddinman 04 said in thread 2, not in exact words but i took it to mean the same. But in your next post in thread 2 you seem to disagree with muddinman.I think that is what is causing the confusion, at least for me. I did not want to cause an argument and i do thank everyone for there help.
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Old January 26, 2010, 07:04 PM   #25
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Muddinman....

you state this:
Quote:
are you stating here that there is NO lead vapor? MORE than minimal lead vapor? What do you mean by your "False" statement?
I have stated, in the thread that was deleted:
Quote:
Lead becomes airborn (vapors) at a much higher temp than we cast at.
... AND in this thread I posted your validation...so you knew what my "False" statement meant.... and you went on to say...
Quote:
Thank you all high and mighty...

There is no reason to be a jerk.
I gave you what you asked for, you obviously understood what I had posted, so why do you intend to try to stir the pot? It is clear as day what I have written. Maybe someone else can help me out here. I posted a table that show the temps at which lead vaporizes. Did you have trouble reading that table because they use Celcius? Help me out here, because I want to help you. I want you to completely understand what I have already stated several times in several different ways...
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