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Old January 21, 2010, 12:17 PM   #1
savage1r
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Check out this new scope mount for the Mosin!

Hey TFL, I just made this installation video of a new scope mount created by Jmeck, his design allows you to put together the mount by yourself without having to drill and tap or anything, just bend some metal, sand some wood and turn a few screws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CHBuiBkQlo
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Old January 21, 2010, 12:52 PM   #2
azredhawk44
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You didn't remove the bolt from the rifle during disassembly.

Naughty.

I also think that any sheet metal you can bend, your rifle's recoil can bend.

I'd like to see your zero, using the same ammunition, over a batch of 100 rounds. I bet it walks, and not due to heat, but due to the band shifting or bending after getting hot.

Last edited by azredhawk44; January 21, 2010 at 12:57 PM.
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Old January 21, 2010, 01:43 PM   #3
5whiskey
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I also think that any sheet metal you can bend, your rifle's recoil can bend.

The beauty is, the fact that you can bend it means you can match it to the receiver of the rifle. It works in esence like a screw clamp. Have you ever used a screw clamp to secure a radiator hose? You can bend a screw clamp with your bare hands, until you screw it around something cylindrical. Then you can't beat it off with a 10 lb maul unless you damage the object it is clamped to.

I bet this works, though I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to C&R guns. I'd rather have a good iron sight system. Note I said a GOOD system, not the standard Nagant or even mauser sights. I prefer aperatures.
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Old January 22, 2010, 12:34 AM   #4
MagnumWill
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I think drilling the receiver on my mosin was no big deal. Sure, you have to have a drill press, but that scope mount practically snapped in place on the receiver, it didn't have the room to shift around and get out of alignment.

and I agree about the metal bending. If the rifle can unscrew the mount screws (which it won't anymore, thanks to a little Loctite) it'll deform that metal after a couple hundred rounds. I think i'm just old fashioned...
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Old January 22, 2010, 12:51 AM   #5
azredhawk44
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5whiskey:

If you can bend it with pliers while the metal is room temperature, and then you apply tension to those pre-cut holes where the screws go...

What do you suppose is going to happen when you put 20 rounds down range and get that barrel hot enough to create heat mirage?

Those little holes that you can bend when the metal is cold, will stretch due to the tension of the metal getting hot.

For this product to work properly, it needs to be thicker and pre-fitted to wrap around the barrel. If it takes more aggressive stock relief, so be it.

If someone will donate or lend one, I'll mount a Leupold 4x33 up top and donate 120 rounds of 7.62x54R 180gr hungarian surplus to prove/disprove the theory.

I'll :
-mount according to the instructions on the video
-sight in using less than 20 rounds total to get zeroed at 100 yards
-let the barrel cool completely, then fire a 5 round group from a bench.
-shoot the gun for an afternoon. Nothing strenuous, just range work. 90 more rounds. Probably an Appleseed AQT of 40 rounds over about 8 total minutes to warm it up a bit, but the rest very casual.
-let the gun cool completely, then fire another 5 round group from a bench.

I am 100% certain that I will encounter a wandering zero during the AQT, and it will be blatantly evident on the downrange variance of rounds 1-5 versus rounds 96-100. My money is on greater than 5 minutes of angle variance.

If I'm wrong... I'll buy one.

If I'm right, then there's no grounds to buy one.

Savage1r, do you know the manufacturer? Would he be open to this challenge?
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Old January 22, 2010, 01:26 AM   #6
5whiskey
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Quote:
Those little holes that you can bend when the metal is cold, will stretch due to the tension of the metal getting hot.
There is a huge difference between bending a piece of metal at it's thinnest point, and deforming metal by compressing it at a thicker point (which would be what happens when you "stretch" those holes). Plus, we're talking about a surplus bolt action rifle here, not a 240G. I'm sure you can chuck enough rounds through the thing to get the receiver fairly warm, but I'm not saying that it could be stout enough to repell NAZI hoards at Stalingrade with massive rapid fire. For any casual range shooting, hunting, even moderate rapid and sustained fire... it'll be just fine.

Quote:
I am 100% certain that I will encounter a wandering zero during the AQT, and it will be blatantly evident on the downrange variance of rounds 1-5 versus rounds 96-100. My money is on greater than 5 minutes of angle variance.
Hmm... You can never be 100% certain about anything you've never seen before so you may want to re think that.


For the record I made an impromptu aperature sight for a yugo mauser with a stripper clip. I can bend that metal with my hands. Funny, I've put well over 100 rounds through it and it still holds the same POA. Rifle shoots 2 moa groups with romanian surpluss. I AM 100% certain that worked

Last edited by 5whiskey; January 22, 2010 at 01:41 AM.
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Old January 22, 2010, 05:25 AM   #7
Cowboyup
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The thing that everyone needs to remember here when bashing this product is that these rifles are 70+ years old and are surplus rifles for around $100 at that. So why is everyone so worried about them getting heated up and loosing accuracy? If you want a good rifle buy one, if you want something cool to plink around with and cheap to buy and shoot that is fairly accurate then get a mosin. This is a neat idea for a scope mount on these rifles. The problem here is that a lot of people here at TFL think they know everything and they like to argue and put everything they dont like down when in fact if you read a lot of their post they know nothing at all and just like to here themselves talk. For god sakes this rifle is what it is, it is not a high dollar sniper rifle.
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Old January 22, 2010, 10:46 AM   #8
azredhawk44
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My mosin is good for 3MOA.

With the original ladder sight.

Or, with the mojo rear sight I have on it.

Those are sturdy sights.

The only time it starts wandering its zero is when it is hot from 20+ rounds fired rapidly (about 1 shot every 5 seconds) and a heat mirage develops along the barrel. If I let it cool for 10-15 minutes, it settles right back down to its original cold bore zero.

However... every time I take it out of the safe for a range session, the zero is intact. No sight adjustment necessary. The front and rear sights keep their orientation to the bore despite heating/cooling cycles.

Quote:
The thing that everyone needs to remember here when bashing this product is that these rifles are 70+ years old and are surplus rifles for around $100 at that. So why is everyone so worried about them getting heated up and loosing accuracy? If you want a good rifle buy one, if you want something cool to plink around with and cheap to buy and shoot that is fairly accurate then get a mosin.
My theory is that because this metal strap involved is so malleable, it will also stretch under the tension of acting as a strap (if you can bend it, then you can stretch it) and this, coupled with heat and abrupt recoil, will shift the scope.

It has nothing to do with being a 70 year old peasant-conscript's rifle, as noted by Cowboyup. I love the mosin. There isn't a better .30 caliber rifle out there for less than $100. Or even $200.

Read the critique more attentively, Cowboyup. The mosin is fine. There are good ways to scope a mosin, even.

However: This is an aftermarket product that has a distinct weakness, IMO.
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Old January 22, 2010, 10:48 AM   #9
azredhawk44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5whiskey
Hmm... You can never be 100% certain about anything you've never seen before so you may want to re think that.
I've seen malleable metal straps experience fatigue before.
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Old January 22, 2010, 11:02 AM   #10
5whiskey
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Quote:
I've seen malleable metal straps experience fatigue before.
And I've seen them hold well before
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