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Old January 21, 2010, 10:43 AM   #1
HK_USP_45
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NRA

I have an open question for you all. I read around on a lot of forums, and when I read posts from NRA members, whenever they reference the NRA, tehy always add the caveat; "I don't always agree with them" or "I belong to the NRA, but I no longer support them" and other, similar comments. What is it about the NRA that has so many gun owners upset? What of their stances, or actions do people not agree with?

I'm just curious. I belong to the NRA and GOA, and I like them both.

Thanks
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Old January 21, 2010, 11:06 AM   #2
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Nothing. I'm very pro NRA.
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Old January 21, 2010, 12:18 PM   #3
Bud Helms
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Quote:
What is it about the NRA that has so many gun owners upset?
Some people think that the NRA should be more hardline in their defense of the Second.
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Old January 21, 2010, 01:53 PM   #4
Skans
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I'm a member of the NRA. I have been since 1999. I support them 100% - they are an excelent organization and they do protect our 2nd Amendment right. The NRA also does many great services for gun owners, some of which are as follows:

1. Best source for national and local information on who supports our firearms freedoms;
2. Strong lobby, which our legislators have learned is a force to be reckoned with when they start trying to stomp out our right to own firearms.
3. Lots of support for competitive shooting and shooting ranges.
4. Great source of information on hunting, shooting, guns, firearms history, new products, how various guns work, repairs, accessories, self-defense, legal and legislative information.

The NRA gets a bad rap from some compromises they had to make in the 1980's. One was the 1986 machinegun ban - upset many NFA owners, dealers and manufacturers. Another was Bush I's 1989 import ban. Others concerned the NRA's support of Bill Ruger and S&W who were actually advocating restrictive legislation on firearms. Many thought that the NRA was in bed with S&W and Ruger. And, perhaps they were.

First of all, in the 1980's they didn't have the strong membership base they have today. There was a lot of political thuggery from Dems and Republicans to start banning various types of firearms. The NRA engaged in political horse trading, I believe they came down on the side of making concealled carry available to most citizens, but looked the other way when legislators made some serious inroads into some of our other rights - like banning civilians from owning registered current production machine guns.

Who's fault was that? Mine, and others like me. People who owned guns but weren't members of the NRA. People who voted for gun banning idiots, not informed enough to know who or what they were voting for. The NRA is only as good as its members. It is only as strong as all of us who join and support them. If nobody but a bunch of old AR15 hating Fudds belong to and support the NRA - you will end up with Fudd legislation. IMHO, that's what happened in the '70's and '80's. The gun banners were ramping up for serious battle, and the NRA was focussed on making sure their Fudds, who were longtime members and paid dues, were satisfied.

Now, things are very different. They have been for about 20 years. Old Fudds have wised up to what was going on and realize that, even if they don't like AR's and AK's, their Browning Auto-5's are next. A newer generation with different firearms tastes have joined their ranks. The NRA has people like Ted Nugent who doesn't take crap from anyone about any kind of firearm he or any American chooses to own. The NRA of today is not the same NRA of the '70's. It's farther reaching, more powerful, and has learned to take a "no compromise stand" on ANY legislation that seeks to take away or diminish our 2nd Amendment rights.

Last edited by Skans; January 21, 2010 at 02:00 PM.
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Old January 21, 2010, 03:03 PM   #5
ClayInTx
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Skans said about the same as I am going to say, but I’m still going to say my piece in order to explain why I was once not an NRA member but have changed my mind. I believe there are others who have made the same change.

Many years ago an older gentleman (older than I at the time, anyway) stated that the NRA was the worst enemy a gun owner could have because they had based their agenda on firearms for sport and hunting.

I thought about this and realized he was correct. Each time a bit of gun-control legislation came up the NRA jumped in with the argument that target shooting sportsmen and hunters should be able to continue their sport.

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with sport or hunting. Do you know why it’s in the Bill of Rights? Do you know what Jefferson wrote about the Second Amendment?

We aren’t there yet but the NRA is now a very different organization than it was back then. Its agenda is broader. It’s doing more good for the Second Amendment than it did then.

Several persons have commented that the NRA is willing to compromise on legislation, and that it should not do that. Unfortunately politics requires compromise. Taking an “all or nothing” stance usually results in nothing. A better stance is “all, or some if that’s the best we can do at this time”.

Because of this change in philosophy by the NRA I am now a member and support it as much as I’m able to do so. It’s the best thing we have going for us now.

However, we must be careful. There is an old Chinese proverb which goes: The chicken that raises its head goes to the pot.

Last edited by ClayInTx; January 21, 2010 at 03:38 PM. Reason: apostrophe misused
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Old January 21, 2010, 03:09 PM   #6
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"What is it about the NRA that has so many gun owners upset?"

Everyone has their own opinions about how things should be done. Take 100 people, ask each one the same question, and you'll likely get 100 different course of action answers. Many people, especially those who have strong beliefs on a subject and who belong to an advocacy organization like NRA, get ****** if the organization doesn't do things "right" according to them.
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Old January 21, 2010, 04:01 PM   #7
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The worst source of information that people get about the NRA is the one that is most quoted or listened to and that is the daily news. I have had some concerns but once I do some homework on it, I get a different perspective than the one I hear, second hand. There are also a political bias at work here. I know quite a few union, Democrats who are gun owners that dislike the NRA because they back Republicans or so they think. I also have Rebulican friends that defend the NRA, no matter what the issues are. Currently working through an issue in our state that I'm not sure if the NRA has my support as I just don't have enough information at this time. No matter what, we should not be sheep and instead, think for ourselves and remember what Mother taught us.



Be Safe !!!
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Old January 21, 2010, 04:08 PM   #8
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NRA Heartbun

I've been an NRA Life Member since 1979. Yes, I'm one that has heartburn regarding the 1986 NFA modification. The publications from the NRA stated time and time again that the NRA would work exhaustively to repeal this legislation. 24yrs later and we still have it!! Yes and the 1989 Import ban was another "we'll continue to work on it" item. If it's a compromise, it's a compromise. Just say so. Let people know where you stand. If you're working exhaustively...keep working!! Would I join the NRA again knowing what I know now? I'm conflicted about this. Based on previous "big ticket item" performance no. I have more faith in the electorate at the polls. To this end the NRA works hard at getting people to the polls. This may be their strong suit. The issue is it's difficult for the NRA to mobilize some demographic groups. It's a tough sell to try to mobilize a group of Gun Owners when they also happen to be rank and file Union members being urged to vote for candidates that are Pro-union and many times are Anti-gun. It's a good time for an NRA alternative.
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Old January 21, 2010, 04:13 PM   #9
azredhawk44
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The most recent NRA travesty is the Heller case.

The NRA lobbied Orin Hatch to introduce legislation to change DC law prior to a SCOTUS ruling.

After that fell through, they lobbied the District Court to join the Heller case to one the NRA was managing (CATO and SAF ran the Heller case), under the NRA's legal counsel since they had more listed plaintiffs.

Then that fell through.

The NRA has compromised the 2A to where it is today: you decide if that's good enough for you.

For me, I'm a member of the NRA purely for eligibility for other things (NRA RSO credential for Appleseed instruction, membership to gun ranges that demand NRA membership, etc). I'm a member of the SAF, CATO, JPFO, RWVA and GOA by choice.
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Old January 21, 2010, 04:36 PM   #10
ClayInTx
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Huh?

Quote:
The NRA has compromised the 2A to where it is today
* * *

The NRA is not what compromised 2A.

If you want to say the NRA hasn’t done enough to save it, then do so, that’s your right.

If you want to say the NRA is useless, then do so, that’s your right.

If you want to say the NRA is a money grabbing, over paid executive, inefficient piece of dirt organization, then do so, that’s your right.
* * *

I say the NRA did not do enough at one time, that's my right.

However, if you want to say the NRA is what has compromised 2A, then prove it!

Last edited by ClayInTx; January 21, 2010 at 04:40 PM. Reason: to clarify
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Old January 21, 2010, 05:07 PM   #11
azredhawk44
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Clay, you're engaging in semantic arguments.

Whether you want to say "compromised to much," "didn't do enough," "useless," "money grabbing," or any other particular choice of words... it still boils down to:

1. The '86 FOPA is the way it is due to the NRA.
2. The NRA tried to kill Heller twice.
3. The NRA would rather attempt to control a compromise rather than aggressively stonewall or fight for a repeal of restrictive legislation.
4. The NRA has institutionalized the gun fight and there are a lot of careers depending on the continuation of that fight rather than decisive victories.
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Old January 21, 2010, 05:16 PM   #12
Skans
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It's a tough sell to try to mobilize a group of Gun Owners when they also happen to be rank and file Union members being urged to vote for candidates that are Pro-union
First, it's simply not true that Republicans are "anti-union". Republicans may be against certain activities, such as card-check, which woud basically just put more money in the hands of he Union leaders. But, no Republican that I know wants to destry Unions, or destroy the ability of workers to organize (if they want to) and engage in collective bargaining. Whether or not to join a Union or to organize should be about freedom of choice - that's my "Republican" belief on this topic anyway.

Having said that, if you are a Union member, you can't blame Republicans for being pro-gun - that's a good thing! The blame lies in the Democrats that Union leaders choose to support. If enough union members make it known to their leaders that they will not support Democrats that don't support the Second Amendment, then guess what - you will have pro-Union Democrats that are also pro-2nd Amendment. They might even have a better chance of appealing to a broader base than a pro-Union anti-gun Democrat. That too would be a good thing!

I'd love to see Unions supporting pro-2nd Amendment Democrats! If you are a member of a Union, why not try to make this happen? The NRA doesn't want to support only Republicans, it's just that Republicans have figured out that msot Americans value their 2nd Amendment rights and have included this as part of their platform. But, Republicans don't have have any kind of patent on being pro-2nd Amendment - Democrats can make this a part of their platform as well and tell the lunitic fringe gun banners to get lost!
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Old January 21, 2010, 05:18 PM   #13
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I'm an NRA member solely because my preferred rifle range demands it. I contribute the minimal possible amount because they can't limit themselves to issues but have become an unconditional supporter for Republicans, independent of their actual position on guns.
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Old January 21, 2010, 05:23 PM   #14
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sadly NRA members are a minority even among gun owners
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Old January 21, 2010, 05:26 PM   #15
Maser
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I support the NRA's cause, but I don't support them in general. They do NOTHING but beg for money, but yet do nothing to help the 2A. IMO, they are typical highway robbers with a lobbyist mask on.
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Old January 21, 2010, 05:49 PM   #16
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Well for some it's because the NRA has become an adjunct of the republican party. For others it was the jack booted thug comment. Still for others it was cheer leading for a religious wak job child rapist.

For me it started when I noticed the close relationship with industry.
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Old January 21, 2010, 06:01 PM   #17
whippoorwill
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I'm an NRA Life Member.

Quote:
They do NOTHING but beg for money, but yet do nothing to help the 2A.
Wow! Nothing for the 2nd Ammendment? Seriously? In any case, you should become a life member... I've not have a donation request from NRA in years and years. The only thing that reminds me that I'm a member is their magazine that appears once a month.

Quote:
Well for some it's because the NRA has become an adjunct of the republican party.
I believe you'll find that it's because Republican politicians, in general, are stronger supporters of the 2A. At least based on their voting records. Duh.

Quote:
Still for others it was cheer leading for a religious wak job child rapist.
Who the heck was that?
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Old January 21, 2010, 06:46 PM   #18
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My problem with them comes at the most basic level. They lay a guilt trip on you because you're not contributing, so you join up. I mean, hey, $30/year from 3-4 million members adds up to 90-120 MILLION dollars every year and that is a LOT of money for a non-profit organization to do business with. Sure, I'll step up to the plate & send'em $30 bucks a year. The first year, they sent me a heap of junk mail (mostly amounting to begging for more money ) that had to have cost $50 to send out. It wasn't quite as bad the 2nd & 3rd year, but I finally made the decision that the best way to support them was to not be a member, they were going in the hole because the junk mail they were sending me cost them more then I was willing to contribute.
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Old January 21, 2010, 06:59 PM   #19
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I am proud to say, "I am the NRA"!! Were it not for them our gun rights would be long gone.
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Old January 21, 2010, 09:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
They do NOTHING but beg for money, but yet do nothing to help the 2A.
1. Without the NRA, there would not be 38+ states with Shall Issue CCW and reciprocity.

2. Without the NRA, there would be no pistol gripped, , folding stocked, semi-auto rifles. The '94 AWB would not have included a sunset clause.

3. Without the NRA, all handguns would have an internal lock.

4. Without the NRA, most long gun ammunition would be banned as AP.


Ect.Ect.Ect.

You may not remember how bad things were in the 80s and 90s. Gun control was very effective in their message. We had gun dealers making deals with Handgun Control Inc (S&W). We had Bill Ruger trying to suck up to lawmakers to get an exclusion for his Mini-14 from the '94 AWB, which brought us 10 round magazines. If not for the NRA, things would be very different.


Quote:
I mean, hey, $30/year from 3-4 million members adds up to 90-120 MILLION dollars every year and that is a LOT of money for a non-profit organization to do business with.


In case you haven't become aware, there is really two parts to the NRA. The one you speak of is the .ORG with is primarily the shooting part. That money helps cover the sports shooting/training/education/ side of the NRA.

The other NRA is the NRA-ILA. This is the polical branch that goes after politicians and fights the 2nd Amendment war. This part in NOT a non-profit group and cannot use those dues you so nicely paid. The only was for them to get money is non-tax deductible contributions.

If you don't want to get these donation requests, contact NRA and let them know. It saves them money not to mail you stuff that you are just going to trash anyway.
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Old January 21, 2010, 09:09 PM   #21
Mike Irwin
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What did I tell you?

100 buttholes, 100 butthole answers...

Each one WILDLY different.

Sigh.

I especially love the pillorying the NRA takes for 1986 FOPA.

Let's see, with out that piece of legislation...

1. A simple Moisin Nagant rifle, the kind that you can buy now for less than $100? Try $500. In 1986.

2. An SKS? Over $1,000.

3. Foreign surplus? Unimportable.

4. Ammunition? Hey, let's sign the ledger for EVERY box of ammo we buy. Five boxes of ammo in one transaction? Sign the ledger five times.

5. Let's not forget the per box cost of ammunition before 1986, as well. Had we been starting from 1986 prices ($22 for a box for American Eagle 9mm), instead of the deflated prices we had after 1986 ($3.99 a box for Winchester White Box on sale), you'd think the recent price of $75 for a box of .380 to be a bargain.

And so forth and so on.

Who needs Democrats when we have our fellow gunowners...
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Old January 21, 2010, 09:25 PM   #22
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Most people who badmouth the NRA just are too lazy or cheap to join the fight.You can make all the excuses you want,but the NRA is the only organization that the Democrat law makers hate.If it wasn't for the NRA we would not be owning guns now.
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Old January 21, 2010, 09:37 PM   #23
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hat did I tell you?

100 buttholes, 100 butthole answers...

Each one WILDLY different.





LMAO!!!! ya gotta love it.......
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Old January 22, 2010, 06:24 AM   #24
ClayInTx
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Where did this “100” answers come from?
Wouldn’t it take at least 100 posts to get there?
And I see only two different answers: FOR & AGAINST.

and to azredhawk44, Post #11
That’s not proof; that’s opinion.
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Old January 22, 2010, 08:55 AM   #25
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The NRA is Like a ...

Church, Union, other civic organization. Not all members agree with what the leadership is doing. Some decide to stick around because they like the other members in the organization, they like the organizations basic make-up, etc....

I know a few union members who disagree with the unions about their support of politicians.

I know a few church members who disagree with a certain denominations teachings about other denominations.

The VFW and AL has members who are paid in full members, but the members have not seen the inside of meeting halls in many years.

I guess for me, I like the NRA because at least we have "a voice in the forest" and I like to think at least someone is listening to that voice. I may not agree with everything they say, but at least they are saying it.

I do not like the plastic military assault looking weapons. (yeah, I am talking about the AR's out there.) I do not like the AK's and SKS. I do not think you really need one. Everyone who has a gun should be required to own the ones that come with the wood stocks and no one needs a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds. So if I was making the rules, you would not have them (and I would also be elected president for life, tree huggers would be banished to an island off the coast of California, animals would be treated with dignity, respect and a healthy dose of gravy, and ....).

The NRA represents me and my right to own firearms. They prevent extremist, like myself , from going to far and curtailing other peoples rights.

But too often we get hung up on little things and quit an organization because we do not see the big picture. We only see what affects us now.
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