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Old January 17, 2010, 04:33 PM   #1
Brenten
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hottest slugs for 12 gage smooth bore?

Looking at what the hottest 12 gauge slugs are for SMOOTH bores.

I know brenneke makes the black magic 600 grain 1500 fps.

Dixie slugs terminator does not appear to be for smooth bore barrels, so that one is out.

so are there any other heavy duty slugs on the market that offer a solid type of round?

posted this in the wrong forum by mistake
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Old January 17, 2010, 05:14 PM   #2
Lee Lapin
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Brenneke KOs = one ounce at 1600 FPS Mv, according to the datasheet at http://www.brennekeusa.com/web/pdf/KOslug.pdf . And they're usually pretty inexpensive too- when you can find 'em.

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Old January 17, 2010, 05:17 PM   #3
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I have Winchester Super X hollow point slugs. They are 1 oz at 1600 fps. Chambered at 2 3/4" for faster action on my gun.
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Old January 17, 2010, 06:17 PM   #4
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actually, so far the brenneke black magic is the most powerful round I have found with 3014 ft-lbs at the muzzle.

http://www.brennekeusa.com/web/text/magnum12.html

the Brenneke tactical round is not as powerful it is basically a solid which offers tremendous penetration:

http://www.brennekeusa.com/web/pdf/S...esShortMag.pdf

however, I was looking to see if anyone made anything even hotter than these two rounds.
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Old January 17, 2010, 07:38 PM   #5
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What's the mission, Brenten?

On deer sized game,darn near any slug works at reasonable ranges.

Or, are you going after bigger stuff?
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Old January 17, 2010, 08:11 PM   #6
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1 3/8 oz at 1502 ft/sec. That is going to be a punishing round. Might I ask why you want a slug like that? My winchesters move at just under 2,500 ft/lbs.
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Old January 18, 2010, 01:28 AM   #7
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A buddy of mine, photographer, is going to be out in Alaskan bear country for some photo mission he has and I told him to take a gun, the only thing he has is a 12 gauge smooth bore. I told him to take it and carry it with him stoked with slugs. Just trying to figure out what is the best type for him to have. I'd give him my raging bull, but he can't hit anything with a handgun. he's good with a rifle/shotgun. I'm not much of a shotgun guy so not sure what is out there in the form of ammo, but that is all he has and he'd rather spend money on camera parts than another gun.
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Old January 18, 2010, 01:42 AM   #8
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Go with the Brenneke Black Magic in 3" mag. These are the best for bears (out of a shotgun) from what I hear.
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Old January 18, 2010, 07:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
is going to be out in Alaskan bear country
I completely understand. I would want the hottest slugs I could get in that situation as well.
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Old January 18, 2010, 11:34 AM   #10
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The heaviest hitter isn't going to do a bit of good if you miss and cannot get back on target real quick...

I would want the hardest hitter I could fire 3 times real quick... Winchester Super X or similar standard energy would be my take.

Also if you are comparing 2 3/4 to longer shells, keep in mind the possible increased capacity with the shorter shell.

If he is firing on a charging bear, it will be under 35 or so yards at furthest before you can be sure it intends to do harm.
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Old January 18, 2010, 12:22 PM   #11
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Another thing to consider maybe

If he is being charged by a bear coming at him at close to 30 mph, there isn't going to be a lot of time to shoulder a gun and fire, especially with a back padck full of gear. He may be better with some 00 or 000 buck that he can rapid fire from the hip at the face of the animal. Its a shooting technique taught with shot guns and can be quite effective. I am no expert tho.
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Old January 18, 2010, 03:08 PM   #12
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He can handle fairly heavy loads, I have had him shoot garret sledgehammer loads from my 45-70 and he did well, and I doubt that any slug is going to kick harder than that load out of a fairly light marlin.

Here is my reasoning for a heavy load. I doubt that he will have a chance at a second shot, so the first one needs to count. A soft lead slug isn't going to be as effective. A heavier slug or hardcast slug will. He's not going alone but I have no faith in the individual he's going with. He's got a friend guide, who knows the back country but apparently never goes armed. He told my buddy that a gun is not necessary, and that he has never had a run in in all the years he's been hitting the back country, I question how often he's been in the wild areas but I don't know anything about Alaska so can't say.
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Old January 18, 2010, 03:32 PM   #13
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Brenten wise choice to go with a solid type slug.A couple of years ago I shot a deer in the neck with a 20 ga Rem Slugger 1/2 oz slug.The deer was 18 steps away and fell right where he stood and the slug did not exit the other side of the neck.When I skinned it I found that the slug had completely exploded and could not find a piece of lead larger than a BB.Not the kind of terminal performance that would stop a bear I don't reckon.
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Old January 18, 2010, 03:41 PM   #14
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xm, I think the results you obtained and those I found prove that the slugs of soft lead can have inconsistent results just like jacketed rifle ammo...

Here is an image from a thread I made of felling a largish pine tree with shot gun fire.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...k+tree+service
Here is a slug we retrieved.

It was fired with a muzzle to tree distance of under 24 inches...
The remnant is from a different slug I think as we fired many and found only this one with quick lookin'.
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Old January 18, 2010, 09:01 PM   #15
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that is a huge mushroom. probably little to no penetration though?
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Old January 18, 2010, 09:08 PM   #16
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It was well into the 10 inch diameter... since we fired countless rounds over a couple/several months, I would be a liar to claim to remember which spot it was fired into and retrieved from... not to mention it was quite some time ago that we dropped the tree.
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Old January 18, 2010, 09:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
that is a huge mushroom. probably little to no penetration though?
One thing that you will not have with 12ga slugs of any standard variety is a penetration problem. There is power to spare. I have seen dozens of deer killed with more brands of slugs than I can remember and I've NEVER seen one fail to penetrate completely. I've seen one shot right below the poop-shoot and the slug exited the front right side of the deer. Had to be 3 FEET of penetration, at least, maybe four.
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Old January 18, 2010, 09:27 PM   #18
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impressive indeed. I will have to play around with some slugs.
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Old January 18, 2010, 10:02 PM   #19
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Even if it isn't going to penetrate 2 feet... you have to admit that the energy dump of a slug that expands that much in short distance is tremendous! It would make me want to sit on my rump and lick my wounds at least
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Old January 19, 2010, 02:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenten
He's got a friend guide, who knows the back country but apparently never goes armed. He told my buddy that a gun is not necessary, and that he has never had a run in in all the years he's been hitting the back country, I question how often he's been in the wild areas but I don't know anything about Alaska so can't say.
Your pal's guide friend is right, pretty much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
Even if it isn't going to penetrate 2 feet... you have to admit that the energy dump of a slug that expands that much in short distance is tremendous! It would make me want to sit on my rump and lick my wounds at least
Me too, but not a charging bear, necessarily.

There's a fair amount of evidence that pepper spray is actually more effective than firearms at deterring brown/grizzly bears. For instance, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service:
The question is not one of marksmanship or clear thinking in the face of a growling bear, for even a skilled marksman with steady nerves may have a slim chance of deterring a bear attack with a gun. Law enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality -- based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.
Deterrence is what you're after here.. in a bear encounter, the goal should be for you and the bear both to walk away uninjured. (But if you're going to rely on a firearm, yes, you do want a 12 gauge pump and slugs... don't mess around with buckshot.)

The books below should be required reading for anyone traveling in bear country; learning what to do around bears is a lot more useful than worrying about which firearm to carry...

Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance
by Stephen Herrero.

Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth by James Gary Shelton

Shelton's other books are also worthwhile: Bear Attack 2 Myth & Reality, and Bear Encounter Survival Guide.
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Old January 20, 2010, 07:58 AM   #21
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good stuff. I'll pass it on. Maybe he should just take a 22 pistol and shoot his friend in the leg when the bear does charge.
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Old January 20, 2010, 08:51 AM   #22
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Spray

Bear spray.
We are gun people and tend to think that way. "What gun will work best?" There's a lot of evidence that, in the case of the big bears, bear spray works better.
We get to read the cases where the guy walking his dog is attacked and kills the charging bear with his .44 snubbie or somesuch - great for him - but we don't read on these fora about the times the gun didn't work.
I don't live in AK. I do fish there. I carry bear spray which is convenient, accessible and can be worked with one hand. Fortunately, I've never seen a bear up close.
I'm carrying a fishing rod on that walk from the highway through 100 yards of woods down to the river. I wouldn't want to have to unlimber a shotgun.
If, though, I did take a SG, it would have Brenneke slugs in it. I'd stay away from Buckshot - poor penetration and, given the size of the pattern at short distance, you're as apt to miss as with a slug.
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Old January 20, 2010, 02:35 PM   #23
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Brenneke 3" KO slugs and bear spray. Both are popular up here
and are available in Walmarts and Fred Meyer grocery stores.
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Old January 22, 2010, 08:18 AM   #24
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ok, now this will sound really stupid, but how do rubber slugs work? are they enough to drive off a bear without hurting it? or once a bear is committed nothing short of real pain will stop it.
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Old January 22, 2010, 09:13 AM   #25
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Rubber slugs

Not for big angry animals. I use them occasionally to chase persistent black bears off a deck behind my home. They work. I'm careful not to be too close so as not to cause a wound.
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