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Old January 17, 2010, 11:44 AM   #1
rickyjames
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smallest 9mm or 45 available for cc

i own the following guns i consider small enuff for cc.
22 beretta minx
380 amt backup-the gun i carry the most
9mm s&w 669
45 springfield micro
45 springfiled champion
45 taurus pt-145
38 s&w 5 shot snubbie
357 rossie 6 shot snubbie
of these guns i carry the amt 380 more than any other, followed by the 45 springfield micro, 38 s&w and most recently the 45 taurus pt-145.

i would consider adding either a 9mm or 45 but it would have to be smaller than my 45 micro, closer in size to the amt backup. i carry the 380 the most because of its size. is there a larger caliber about the same size available?
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Old January 17, 2010, 11:54 AM   #2
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Rohrbaugh R9s would be the smallest practical 9mm pistol. Kahr PM9 is not far behind. As far as .45acp's go, the Para Ord Slim Hawg is about the smallest 1911 and the Kahr PM45 is very hard to beat size wise.

Rohrbaugh compared to Glock 26


Para Ord Slim Hawg compared to J-frame
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Old January 17, 2010, 01:02 PM   #3
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Remember that the smallest is not always the lightest or easiest to shoot. I'll keep my pf-9 kel-tech followed buy my CA 38ultra ligt. Both at or under 13oz
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Old January 17, 2010, 01:14 PM   #4
Peter Weber
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+1 on the Rohrbaugh R9. They're pricey, but they're also one of the nicest made guns I've ever seen. They're made right here on Long Island, N.Y. And ... every single solitary component is also American made.

It's not a range gun, but, it's not designed to be a range gun.
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Old January 17, 2010, 01:21 PM   #5
rickyjames
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being small is more important than being light. my amt 380 is about 18 oz, i guess the new little ruger 380 is about half that weight but not half the size. i guess i'm looking for something more pocket sized in a larger caliber than my 380.
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Old January 17, 2010, 01:37 PM   #6
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my small guys (in 9mm and 45...

colt new agent 1911 slim 3" (.45acp), CZ2075 RAMI double stack (9mm), KelTek PF-9 (9mm),

i cant do the fancy pictures like you can

other than the pf9, the others are a little bigger than "micro" but i have dumb hands that cant really hold onto super small pistols
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Old January 17, 2010, 02:15 PM   #7
rickyjames
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these are my current choices for cc. out of these the 380 backup is used most often because of its size. i do carry some of the others if i feel the need. im really looking for something between the 380 and the 45 micro in size.

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Old January 17, 2010, 04:31 PM   #8
Ed K
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I own and carry a R9 daily Have had many mouse guns like this one the best, I'm selling this one and getting a new one with my own S/N and a 380 model matching. I make R9 jewelry any one at shot show can see it at their display with their guns.
When I post my R9 Eric is going to tune it up personally
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Old January 17, 2010, 04:36 PM   #9
Shadi Khalil
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I think the size of the P9/CW9 is about the perfect size for concealment. They are very light weight and thin but they don't compromise on the grip. The PM45 is about the same size.
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Old January 17, 2010, 06:21 PM   #10
DasFriek
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I have a pretty similier ccw collection.
CZ vz45 .25
Sig P238
Walther PPS 9
Taurus PT745
PT1911

I think the PPS 9 is the gun your missing,or a PM9 would work also.
My PT1911 as a main gun and P238 as a bug get most of my carry time.

The PPS only see's about 25% of my bug carry and 1% of the time as a main gun.But i think that will change this summer,as i just bought it in the fall and i dont need a small main gun in these cooler months.

The reason i say this with a half holster/cover i made it hides very well in my back pocket,and no .45 i know of can do that.
You can also go smaller with the KT PF9
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Old January 17, 2010, 06:28 PM   #11
IdahoG36
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The Kahr PM9 is a very small 9mm that is the same size or smaller than a lot of .380 pistols out there.
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Old January 17, 2010, 06:38 PM   #12
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In the last couple months I have purchased a CW9 and a CW45. They quickly became my most carried pieces with a snubbie falling just shy.

I thought I was done with poymer til I found Kahr!

I also like being able to get all my fingers on both Kahrs and yet they are way comfortable to CC.
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Old January 17, 2010, 07:27 PM   #13
oneounceload
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Rohrbaugh in 9mm would be the smallest, Kahr is close. Rohrbaugh can also be carried in your pocket
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Old January 17, 2010, 10:47 PM   #14
jfrey
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+1 for the CW9 and CW45. Great pistols and easy to carry. Not too big and not too small.
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Old January 17, 2010, 10:52 PM   #15
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For a graphical comparison of many small pistols go to this link.

http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
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Old January 17, 2010, 11:19 PM   #16
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My Diamondback DB380 is about the same size as my AMT Backup 380 S/A, but lighter and thinner
AMT Backup was my most carried until I got the DB380 .... however, my next 9mm will probably be the MCP.

If you want smaller/lighter in a larger caliber, you need to wait just a bit and get the (Microtech Small Arms Research MSAR) MicroTech Archangel MCP 9mm = 7 Ounces

4 "models" nightsights or not, accessory rail or not, ... and one combo with knife
I want the rail, not sure about night sights yet

http://www.lipseys.com/itemfinder.as...changel+Series

ableammo has them listed, but "out of stock" because nothing shipping yet from Microtech.
It's still in "Products Coming Soon" on http://www.msarinc.com/whats_new.html and info about a plant expanding ...
"We are currently expanding our operation into
North Carolina, please bear with us for the next 30 days while we get the facility up and operational. While we are continuing to do business please understand there are delays right now as we are getting equipped.

Last edited by RPB; January 18, 2010 at 08:54 AM.
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Old January 18, 2010, 01:55 AM   #17
Sgt Pepper
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Kahr P45 (same size as CW45) is comfortable to shoot and carry. My only hesitation with Glock in .45 acp for CCW is thickness. The Kahr fits the bill and works wonderfully.
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Old January 18, 2010, 07:50 AM   #18
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The smallest 9mm I own is a Keltec PF-9. I find that this is as small as I can go and be able to actually shoot it well enough to carry. As far as .45's, I have been tempted several times in the past to pick up a Bersa thunder .45.
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Old January 19, 2010, 09:46 AM   #19
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Try out a PPS --- It's Super Slim !! (ONLY .91 in. / 23 mm Wide !!)



http://www.walther-pps.com/
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Old January 19, 2010, 10:26 AM   #20
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The Kahr PM45 is about as small as you can go with the .45 Cal. platform. It also works for me as a potent pocket carry pistol.

Randy



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Old January 19, 2010, 10:54 AM   #21
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I like the Taurus Millenium...and the fact that Taurus' guns have a lifetime warranty.
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Old January 19, 2010, 06:17 PM   #22
Gary L. Griffiths
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Quote:
The Kahr PM45 is about as small as you can go with the .45 Cal. platform. It also works for me as a potent pocket carry pistol.
I have one, and I'm selling it. It's just not that much smaller or more easily concealed than my Taurus PT-145. My "Always" gun is a Kel-Tec P-32 with a pocket-slipper laser attached. I'm thinking of trying the Kel-Tec PF-9 as a pocketable "Almost Always" gun.
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Old January 27, 2010, 09:31 AM   #23
B18C5-EH2
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My first post here - stumbled across this topic when Google image searching for a comparison pic of a Kahr PM9 vs. PM45.

I own two pistols, and both are of the small, conceal/carry variety. Both were killer deals so that did influence my decision somewhat.

I bought a Glock 39 this time last year. It is the popular "baby" Glock frame chambered in .45 GAP. Some people have an aversion to the .45 GAP round itself mainly because it's not mainstream, and you can't just walk into Wal-Mart and buy some. I've come across ridiculous deals on ammo BECAUSE it's not mainstream like 9mm luger, .45 ACP, or .40 S&W. I got a box of 200gr Speer Gold dot, 250 rounds for just $79.00 at a local GA outdoor supplier.

Anyway the "baby" Glock frame is pretty small. I have carried it now for a year in a holster that can be worn on the hip (with a jacket) or ISWB and for the most part it's comfortable.

Here's a pic of the Glock 39 in my hand - it has a Pearce Grip +1 pinky extension, so keep that in mind. Otherwise the magazine sits flush and only accommodates the middle and ring fingers for grip:



So fast forward to this year, last week, and my wife and I were shopping for a conceal/carry pistol for her. Smallest, lightest, pistol possible chambered in at least 9mm luger were our specifications.

After much research it came down to the Kel-Tec PF-9 and the Kahr Arms PM9. She handled both and liked the feel of the Kahr more (I did not let her see price tags) and we had a tough call since I could get the Kel-Tec for exactly halfof what the Kahr was going to cost - $320.00 vs. $640,.00.

Well I found a mislabeled brand new PM9 for $465.00 out the door including tax so we picked it up this past Saturday.

This PM9 is tiny for carry, and I love it. It's so slim and light that I can carry it inside my waistband,up front while at work for 10 hours straight and not even feel it digging or anything.

Pic of PM9 in my hand:



The "baby" Glock feels like an absolute BRICK compared to the PM9, and here's some pics I took to illustrate why:



Kahr with ultra hideous +1 mag:



Continuing post in next reply due to 6 image limit...
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Old January 27, 2010, 09:32 AM   #24
B18C5-EH2
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For ME here is where it really counts - thickness:







However the Glock 39 does make a bigger "impression" on your target:



I'll put it this way:

After a few days of carrying the Kahr I am seriously thinking of selling my Glock and trying to find a Kahr PM45. I just really want to compare the PM45 size-wise to the PM9 since i'm already attached to this tiny thing, and I have to give it to my wife as soon as she gets her firearms license.
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Old January 27, 2010, 09:39 AM   #25
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Great photos! Thanks for the comparison.
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