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Old January 12, 2010, 10:00 PM   #1
matt_3479
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22-250 remington vs 223. remington

I am looking into getting myself a varmint rifle and for a while people were telling me to get the 22-250 rem, and i did extensive research on this caliber and i was very impressed. But for the past couple weeks people have been changing there mind and telling me to stay away from the 22-250 rem and sticking with the 223. rem. Now i love both cartridges, i have hunted with both, i have taking it both out many times for target shooting but i was just a little more impressed with the 22-250 probably because of the speed and longer reach. Which one do you suggest? which one do you shoot? why?
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Old January 12, 2010, 10:01 PM   #2
matt_3479
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I was looking into getting it in the Remington Model 700 VS SF II and my shots will be taken anywhere from close out to 500 yards. Most shots will be from 100-350 yards
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Old January 12, 2010, 10:06 PM   #3
Dougw47
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If I were getting...

...a dedicated varmint rifle, I would choose the 22-250. It is just a hands down better cartridge. In my opinion, of course.
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Old January 12, 2010, 10:12 PM   #4
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^^^^^^

What he said,

LK
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Old January 12, 2010, 10:42 PM   #5
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In my experience, I think accuracy is just about the same out to 400m depending on the bullet weight. Further out, arguably the .22-250 is more effective. Here lies the rub:

.223 fans have found a way to compete well into the 600m range. Some have claimed to use a 77gr bullet (sometimes the Sierra MatchKing) and installed a barrel with either 1:7 or 1:8 twist. One advantage of the .223, if you go this route and reload, is less powder usage. I don't know if barrel life is diminished with this setup or not.

I personally like the .22-250. Higher velocity, flatter trajectory, and overall longer range. Barrel life doesn't bother me. Many accurate loads I've produced are below max and by the time it would really burn out, it would be several years.
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Old January 12, 2010, 10:44 PM   #6
montana man
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I had a 22-250 ackley improved while I was in my teens, it was a savage single shot bolt action (112?) it shot great and was an excellent performer on the large bodied coyotes in my area. I even took a handfull of antelope with it and never had a problem. (I always waited for a good shot, and also shot the rifle well.) During my college years the money was tight so I turned the rifle into rent money (the freezer was full so it didn't matter.) After college I have shot and owned many .223's and never really have had the connection with them. I still have a bushmaster varminter that I use on coyotes but it just doesn't have the zap that the 22-250 had. My next rifle build will probably be a ackley improved 22-250 with a faster twist to shoot a heavier bullet to buck the wind better and drive a little harder.
Remington seems to make good rifles for the money and I don't really see where you could go wrong with one. The two cartridges you are looking at are both really excellent. The 22-250 of course is much faster which would give you better range. The .223 would be cheaper to shoot factory ammo through. If you are reloading the price difference would be no big factor. You could have either chamber reamed to Ackley improved configuration if you wanted even more speed or case life. Accuracy of both cartriges is generally very acceptable. All you have to do is decide which trajectory you want to roll with and spend you're hard earned greenbacks.
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Old January 13, 2010, 11:42 PM   #7
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22-250 /.223 ??

Has anyone any exposure to the "19 Calhoons"?They're a wildcat .223 or a .30 carbine(Badger).Sounds FUN.4000+fps.Serious investment into Varminting & Yodelers.Ballistics look awesome on the Calhoon site.I have info. on the way.Any opinions on the cartridge.
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Old January 16, 2010, 06:34 PM   #8
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As Montana man said, if you ever wanted to shoot the heavier bullets you will need a faster twist barrel.The problem is most factory rifles are only offered in 1-14" twist except the savage predator which is 1-12".If you don't care about the heavier bullets you have a lot of nice rifles to choose from, if you do you will have to get a custom barrel.I'm now leaning more to a .223 for that reason.Looking at the kimber montana in .223 which has a 1-9" twist.

Does anyone know why the rifle makers don't offer a faster twist in the 22-250.
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Old January 16, 2010, 06:48 PM   #9
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My guess is when you go for a tighter twist ratio, you're limiting the range of bullets you can use. Higher twist rate usually equals the need for a heavier bullet. Sometimes you can get away from going heavier if the bullet's ogive is designed to compensate. Then, you're at the mercy of finding a respectable selection of bullets made to your liking with said ogive.
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Old January 16, 2010, 06:59 PM   #10
MR4SHOOTIN
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Just wondering because my Rem. LTR with 1-9" shoots 45 & 55 grainers better than the 60, and 69 grains that I have tried.I guess it depends what the individual rifle likes.I don't handload either so I am limited to factory offerings.
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Old January 16, 2010, 07:07 PM   #11
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I have both, love both. I started on the "Deuce" .222 Rem. The smaller two may or may not be cheaper to shoot for you. Accuracy is about the same for all out to about 300 yds. Wind takes over after that. I prefer custom ammo myself. I doubt if you will ever meet an owner of the .22-250 that doesn't really love that hot little cartridge. There's a lot to be said for that.

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Old January 16, 2010, 07:09 PM   #12
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I have both... shoot the 223 the most.... less powder...save money.... I was more accurate with my 223 than with the 22-250 that I have.
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Old January 16, 2010, 08:48 PM   #13
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Consider .204

I assume you've tried or reviewed the .204? I searched for a good varmit rifle and landed on the Browning A-Bolt .204. You don't see this caliber a lot, and it used to be very poplular many years ago. it's regaining its popularity because if you look at ballistic tables, you'll see it's just about the fastest, flattest shooting round out there compared to the .223, 22-250, or .17. I've used it quite a bit hunting prairie dog and varmits up to yotes, and its a killer that's fun to shoot. Just wish I could find a clip with more than 5 rounds.
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Old January 16, 2010, 09:33 PM   #14
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I have , and shoot both. I built the 22-250 with a 1-9 twist, fluted octagon heavy barrel, (1.125" non tapered) and have worked up .5 MOA loads with both heavy and light bullets. 52's and 55 's seem to like a little less velocity and the 69's and 75's like a little more to find the sweet spot in the long (28 inch) 1-9, so the intended target and distance dictates the load used.

My .223 is not nearly as versatile and is somewhat range limited with it's smaller case capacity. (I know, I know, somebody's uncle killed a moose, DRT, at 600 yards, in the rain, with his .223, 3 years in a row... ) Mine is a "walkin' varminter" with a 1-10, short (20 inch) barrel and seldom See's use at over 250 yd.'s. but it's easily sub 1 MOA out to 200 yds. (the upside is that my tired old ass can tote it all day, the 22-250 might as well be screwed down in the pickup bed)

Both cartridges fill the niche I built them for perfectly. That said, if I was buying off the rack, I'd go with the 22-250, as it is able to shoot a wider selection of bullet weights, better, with a larger selection of powders.

Just one mans opinion, YMMV. Paul.
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Old January 17, 2010, 12:32 AM   #15
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You can just look at old post this question gets asked every other day.
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Old January 17, 2010, 12:25 PM   #16
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If I could only have one varmint rifle, it would be a .223 Remington. But, wait, I live in America! I can have all the varmint rifles I want (er, can afford)! And for that reason, I have more than a few "varmint" rifles, including a few .22 rimfires, a couple of .22 Magnum (rimfires), a .22 Hornet, three .223s and a .220 Swift. Like a golfer using an array of clubs for a variety of purposes, different calibers are used for situations specific to their ballistics (i.e., a .22 rimfire might serve as my "putter" for taking out rats at the local dump; the Swift employed as my "driver" for sniping at woodchucks grazing five football fields away).
But, the reasons I'd pick the .223 over everything else if I was limited to one varmint rifle are:


(1) It is relatively cheap to shoot (though no .22 rimfire-but close if you reload)

(2) It is easy to reload

(3) Due to its decades long tenure as America's military round, finding brass should never be a problem

(4) It is an accurate cartridge

(5) It has minimal recoil and is fairly quiet (at least as compared to, say, the .22-250)

(6) It has plenty of steam for flatter trajectories needed for longer shots (though no .22-250)

(7) It is relatively easy on barrels

(8) And, finally, it is (or has been) chambered in about every rifle action ever made, including pumps, levers, bolts and autos.
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Old January 21, 2010, 02:05 PM   #17
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I own both

When high volume shooting P-Dogs or Squirrels the 223 is far and away better. Barrels heat up less and $cheaper to shoot all day$

When long range accuracy with single shots to 400 yards 22-250 is King.
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Old January 21, 2010, 02:35 PM   #18
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I have a .223 single shot that I carry around as my truck gun to shoot an occasional coyote that I see when I'm working in the back country. I picked it up real cheap and it does the job well since it's very compact and light.

However, if I was to go out and buy a serious varmint rifle, I wouldn't hesitate to get anything other than a 22-250. I'm friends with a couple of serious varmint hunters. The one guy used a 223 for years and it did well out to about 350 yards on crows and coyotes. He switched to the 22-250 because it works a lot better out to 500 yards. The other guy? That's a different story entirely. He built a custom rifle on a wildcat cartridge where he necked down a 7 MM mag case down to .22 caliber. I have no idea what the velocity is, but he had to search awhile to find bullets that didn't rip apart because of the muzzle velocity. It shoots well though from what I've seen.
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Old January 21, 2010, 03:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
I am looking into getting myself a varmint rifle
Absolutely, get a 22-250. It is one of the best specialized varmint carridges available in a factory standard chambered rifle. Folks can argue about the 220 Swift vs 22-250 all day long and not settle a thing, the 22-250 gives up nothing to the Swift in equal length barrels. I have owned and shot a 22-250 for 30 years, and the 22-250 is hands-down the best varminting cartridge I have ever owned or shot. I also own and shoot a 223, and I like it a lot for a walking varminter, but the 223 is about a 350 yds round for varminting.

Quote:
.223 fans have found a way to compete well into the 600m range
I shoot Service Rifle match frequently, and a 223 cannot compete against a 22-250 at 600 yds with varmint-weight bullets and the trajectories needed for hitting very small targets. At Service Rifle Match ranges, a 223 shooting heavy bullets can get there, but will not perform better than a 22-250 shooting 50-55 gr bullets. Heavy-for-caliber 22-caliber bullets are popular because of the AR15 in Service Rifle matches, and because they allow 223 shooters to get to 600 yds cleanly without a lot of wind deflection as compared to a 55 gr bullet. Now admittedly, if you are trying to reach out to 1,000 yds, you need heavier bullets, but the heavier bullets do not have a trajectory advantage over lighter bullets until about 400 yds.

* At 600 yds zero, a 223 launching a 70 gr bullet at 2,700 fps has a midrange trajectory about 26" above the line of sight (LOS), where a 22-250 firing a 55 gr bullet at 3,700 fps is only about 12" above LOS.

* A 223 firing 70 gr bullets will have a MPBR of about 250 yds, a 22-250 firing 55 gr will have a MPBR of 350 yds (using 3" diameter target). Hitting a smallish target at 450 yds with a 223 firing 70 gr bullets requires some mental gymnastics to figure drop and windage and guesstimate holdover. I am probably not astute enough for mental gymanstics, I like "point-n-click". With a 22-250 you hold over just a bit, hold into the wind just a bit, and send it on its way. POP! goes the weasel!

* That same 223 70 gr bullet will have total drop out to 600 yds of 50" or so, and the 22-250 will have a total drop of 30" or so. You decide which one you should use to hit a little rodent way out there somewhere between 350 and 500 yds without a rangefinder or wind flags.

I said all that to say all this: get a 22-250. You won't be sorry.
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Old January 21, 2010, 04:11 PM   #20
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman1
I assume you've tried or reviewed the .204? I searched for a good varmit rifle and landed on the Browning A-Bolt .204. You don't see this caliber a lot, and it used to be very poplular many years ago. it's regaining its popularity because if you look at ballistic tables, you'll see it's just about the fastest, flattest shooting round out there compared to the .223, 22-250, or .17.
I agree with most of what you say here but.... "very popular many years ago"?

The 204 was only invented in 2004
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Old January 21, 2010, 06:17 PM   #21
James R. Burke
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Just myself I had the Browning varmint with the boss system in 22-250, Leupold scope 6.5x20x50. Most accurate rilfle I have ever owned. I also reloaded for it. I would get the 250 if it was myself, but that is just me. You tryed them both so that is a good thing. Dont get in a hurry and do the research that will satisfy you. Good luck, and have fun, keep it safe!
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