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Old January 10, 2010, 07:24 PM   #26
45Gunner
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In the last bedroom, in the back of a small closet I found a dern cat!
Desperate, Entrenched, Ravenous, Nocternal CAT.

Better to have backup than to have to face on of those by yourself. Does your unit have a Feline Team? I hope they pull their weight and don't pussyfoot around! Oh, could we milk this one....it's just a purrrrrrfect setup.

I know you know it is funny at your own expense but if you were sensitive, it wouldn't have been posted here. I appreciate your ability to not be so serious.
Thanks for the post and glad it didn't start any cat fights.
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Old January 10, 2010, 08:04 PM   #27
garryc
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Gary, as a current Correctional Sergeant who just happens to run Complex security, good job, wanna come work for me? I need a few more with thier heads screwed on straight.
ClayinTX, being in this job for a few years, he's lucky there was someone avilable to respond, some places are pretty short of staff. Kudos to the Captain for going, most of mine would say, "Sergeant, get on it." Actually, I would have notified him on the way out. A possible escape is NOTHING to mess around with, many escapees have killed again while on the run, as they have literally nothing to lose.
Well done, Officer.
armoredman

That is more tempting than you know. Fact is, you gotta know about me, is I ain't into all this feel good social work bullcrap. I believe an inmate should follow the orders of an officer without question. This, "It ain't my job" crap doesn't fly.


We had an inmate suicide awhile back (by swallowing toilet paper and choking) the physiologist came around to talk to everyone and part of this CIST program. She told my about the incident and all I asked was if everyone followed policy and did their jobs. She said they had and I responded by saying "That's all that counts"

She was aghast. I told her my job was to effect the policies of the Department and the procedures of the institution, and as long as I and others did that the death of an inmate is completely irrelevant. She was really upset, I told her that empathy may be part of her job description, but is no part of mine.

Sometime later she wrote me up for being insensitive to a rape victim. The fact is I executed department policy to the letter. I was completely without emotion on that. I simply asked him who, which he told me, and I had other officers take the accused into custody while I kept constant observation on him until his escort arrived. I stood before the Major on that one. I simply asked him, "Major, what the %$#@ do you want me to do, let the goat cry on my shoulder? Ain't happening!" I told him, "If I violated policy or procedure then charge me for it."

Now I'm not so stand offish with the inmates. I do talk with them and joke some. I found being unapproachable hinders my ability to gather information. The inmates know I will act completely professionally, they also know never to step over the line with me. Frankly, they can deal with Mr. C, who ain't a bad guy, or officer C, who is an a$$hole. Depends on their conduct.

So armoredman, that's the only way I know to be a C/O
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Old January 10, 2010, 08:14 PM   #28
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Sounds like you got it wired. Follow policy and procedure and you can never get burned. As for the rape victim, don't forget CRIPA, it can burn you, you probably have policies in place for that aspect, which I am willing to bet you followed. As for the searching for contraband, perfect. Security is not convienent. Good security requires attention to detail, and excellent security demands even more attention to detail, sounds like you have that one down pat.
As for empathy, they have Chaplains and Programs Staff to cry on, that's thier job, not ours. Nothing wrong with talking with and joking with as long as you don't "cross the line", and once again, sounds like you have that locked. Approach determines response, had to talk down a situation more than once when I was outnumbered 100 to one.
As for following orders without question, as long as they are legal orders, absolutely. I do have to mention one time I was yelling at an inmate who ignored me and kept on going. Was about to activate and move up the Use of Force continuum when I was told the inmate wasn't ignoring me - he was stone deaf. Oops. Gotta get to know your population well, too.
Good job. Hope your supervisors are recognizing you for a job well done.
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Old January 10, 2010, 08:31 PM   #29
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I would beware of cats in the dark... Some are armed and shoot at an 8th grade level...

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Old January 10, 2010, 08:46 PM   #30
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As far as CRIPA is concerned I guess the only thing he might say is that I was indifferent. But since I acted in accordance with policy, and exactly within it, I don't see how such a complaint would fly. No one in this world can require you to show emotion, which is what he wanted. I'd say he only could file a complaint if I failed to faithfully act on policy, or ridiculed him.

Basically I kept him in protected status under constant observation.

I identified the perp and had him taken into custody.

I stayed with the victim until relieved by the escort officer.

I secured the alleged crime scene

I secured as evidence all of the victims property and that of the perp that was not in the cells or crime scene. All items were secured in large paper bags as to preserve DNA evidence. All other property was in the sealed cells, including that which belonged to the cell mates. No items of any kind taken from those cells, the cell mates where issued basic hygiene items and jump suits Chain of custody paperwork done.

All known associates of both victim and perp and inmates residing in the area of the crime scene, and near the inmates cells, detained until questioned or released by the Investigator.
\
I actually had the Captain send me a scribe, he wrote what I told him.

My incident report was in detail and timed exacty, it stood well in court.

I'd say I covered it all.
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Old January 10, 2010, 09:29 PM   #31
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Sounds good. Chain of custody is vital in these cases, and so is bodily evidence, don't let the victim change clothes, wash, brush teeth, etc., get medical and psych on scene as well as Criminal Investigations Unit, sounds like you had it done by the numbers. Good job.
We file street charges for sexual assault here as well.

We pay for experiance down here as well.
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Old January 10, 2010, 09:58 PM   #32
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Hindsight is 20/20

Quote:
Originally Posted by garryc
I don't worry about the ribbing, fact is I'll rib a fellow officer and tell him at the same time he or she did good. All part of being on a team.

But, some people can only see an LE situation with what is known after the fact. Review boards tend to have that problem. It's almost as if one of the job qualifications for anyone in the LE field is clairvoyance. Actions done by a reasonable suspision from information KNOWN AT THE TIME don't seem to carry any weight, especially when those reviewing have an agenda to come to a conclusion and only have to construct the facts to suit that end. Politics

I think one of the biggest issues to defeat in a post incident situation, no matter if it's LE or civilian, is getting the persons reviewing to see only what you saw at the time
Exactly right, garryc. Hindsight is always 20/20.

I am not in Law Enforcement, Corrections or even security (ex-military, though). I find it hard to believe your organization does not have standard operating procedures written down somewhere, and conduct training on what to do in various scenarios. In any emergent situation, you need to know what you are expected to do and what you can expect your fellow officers to do. Deciding tactics on the fly is just plain (insert chosen adjective here). As the saying goes, "Failing to plan is planning to fail". What football team or basketball team does not have a playbook? What fire team or squad does not have standardized procedures for combat movement and communication? Dead ones.

I cannot imagine clearing a house alone under anything but the most exigent circumstances.

If I were your supervisor, under the circumstances you described, I would write you up for NOT calling for backup. And there would have been at least two in the backup team if the manpower were available.


As far as the other questions you brought up about showing compassion to a crime victim. A rape victim is a rape victim. However, you (as well as regular police with non-convict victims) have a job to do. You can be rendered ineffective in that primary job if you lose control of your compassion. A suicide victim always leaves an emotional wake. But you are not equipped or authorized to interact on that level, particularly not when homicide has not been completely ruled out. Attempts to interact on that level may well interfere with your primary duties.

Quote:
(truncated for brevity)...She was aghast. I told her my job was to effect the policies of the Department and the procedures of the institution, and as long as I and others did that the death of an inmate is completely irrelevant. She was really upset, I told her that empathy may be part of her job description, but is no part of mine.
In our correctional institutions (which have been called, at various times, penal institutions, rehabilitation facilities, and all sorts of other names that imply emphasis on disparate missions - punishment, to cure, and everything in between) different people have different jobs. Psychologists and social workers concentrate of reforming the inmates so they can coexist with other human beings (in or out of prison). Correctional officers (a.k.a. guards) maintain order. Both depend on the other to cooperatively do their jobs. But if either tries to do both, it does not work. If the lady who wrote you up does not understand that...well, she needs to be re-educated in order to do her job.

Developing a certain amount of "steel" in your exterior is also important to your own sanity, and that of your family's. You have to know when to, and when not to, apply your compassion. Look at C.O.'s divorce rates.

You did well. I believe armoredman has read you correctly, and you are one of the good ones. You might change jobs to his organization, or you might stay where you are, rise through the ranks and effect some of the changes you know are due.

Good luck, and keep up the good work.

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Old January 11, 2010, 09:23 AM   #33
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Good post Lost Sheep, but a few corrections.

Quote:
You can be rendered ineffective in that primary job if you lose control of your compassion.
That will never be a problem, as far as an inmate goes, I have no compasion to loose control of. Not one ounce.


Quote:
A suicide victim always leaves an emotional wake.
Again, no. I've seen this stuff, assaults, inmates cutting their own throats, hangings, always I go home and sleep fine at night. Stuff happens in the joint, taking that stuff home will ruin you private life and your marrage.

I only care bout doing my job, executing my policies and procedures to the letter with no errors. And this is important, being able to clearly and rationally justify my actions.

Here's the thing about investigations that you should remember post incident, and it doesn't matter if it's LE answering or a civilian. Always take a moment to run the answer through your mind. The investigator is going to ask you why you hesitate answering. Your response should be, " Sir, I know you are seeking accurate information so I wish to consider my answers before I give them, so I make sure I give to the accurate information that will assist you in doing your job."

What you have to understand is that flash answers, off the cuff, are malleable and easily twisted. Next thing you know he picks out what he may call a lie, something that justifies him saying you are being deceptive, then he's got you.

Always exercise your rights, application of ones rights are no an indication of guilt, don't let them get away with saying they are. In the administrative questioning I do not have a fifth amendment right. What I do have is the right to withhold answers until I'm given a Reverse Garrity Warning. That is an acknowledgment that my answers will not be released to law enforcement. I don't care if I'm late to roll call, I get that document.

People talk about defensive tactics, what they would do in a situation. It is as important to mentally prepair yourself for the post incident investigation.

One thing is important when writting reports. If you make a mistake never toss that error in the trash. I have seen investigators go to the trash and pull out documents, then include them in their investigation. Flush it down the toilet, take it home with you. Destroy it.

Last edited by garryc; January 11, 2010 at 09:40 AM.
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Old January 11, 2010, 10:43 AM   #34
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Don't ever hesitate to call for or supply backup-----What are other guys doing that is more important? Everyone goes home with the same amount of holes in them as they came with.


Quote:
Also, it has been my experience at least in my dept that those who give you a little ribbing and bust chops when you " screw up" (ie: talk to a citizen with your fly down, inadvertently key up your radio while talking up your latest romantic conquest in excruciating detail with your partner, etc) are the ones who are going to have your back when the SHTF and those who keep their "comments" to themselves until you are not around are the ones you need to keep your eye on. Don't worry about the ribbing. What comes around goes around and everyone slips on a banana peel sooner or later LOL.
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You are exactly correct. I dish it out so I better be able to take ribbing. That is the problem with new guys they can't be criticized without getting their nose out of joint..

What is CRIPA?
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Old January 11, 2010, 08:48 PM   #35
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Contsitutional Rights for Incarcerated Persons Act.
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Old January 11, 2010, 10:55 PM   #36
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man you only get one life, never be embarrased to be safe!!!
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Old January 12, 2010, 11:46 AM   #37
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Despite any ribbing, calling for BU is never a bad thing. Always better to be safe than sorry right?
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Old January 12, 2010, 01:10 PM   #38
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Despite any ribbing, calling for BU is never a bad thing.
That needed to be said again, with emphasis on "never". I always encouraged my people to back each other up without being dispatched to do so, even on seemingly benign calls. I've seen things go South in a hurry on the most "routine" of calls, (The word "routine" shouldn't even exist in LE's vocabulary.) so that old phrase, "better to have it and not need it..." applies to backup too.

As to the ribbing, I fear some here aren't familiar with cop shop humor. Let's just say that a cop's sense of humor falls in a class all by itself, with absolutely no mercy .

I always knew I was OK when the practical jokes started, i.e., doctored photos on the squad room bulletin board, etc., but I knew I'd really screwed up when I was met with silence.
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Old January 12, 2010, 01:24 PM   #39
garryc
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Oh the humor can be brutal, and crude, and darn funny. For example, we had an officer show up with a mohawk last night, which he is now required to cut off as it is a radical hair cut. The ribbing he took just yesterday was brutal. I told him he looked like "Big Bertha on the beach" and "I ain't seen nothin' like that since the 70's" (actually I was more descriptive than that) I explored many more avenues of humor, much more crude, than I can explain here. I'm willing to bet he doesn't have it tonight.

Charlie, you would have been proud, and likely would have contributed

Last edited by garryc; January 12, 2010 at 01:32 PM.
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Old January 12, 2010, 01:55 PM   #40
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Like I said, "no mercy".
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Old January 23, 2010, 01:02 PM   #41
highcaliberprovider
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I always knew I was OK when the practical jokes started, i.e., doctored photos on the squad room bulletin board, etc., but I knew I'd really screwed up when I was met with silence.
Amen brother! It's those "death stares" you gotta worry about, not the ribbing.
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