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Old January 5, 2010, 12:55 PM   #1
Drummer101
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Minnesota Gun laws

Well I am getting a used rifle from out of state so it is having to go though a FFL. But it comes on Friday and that is when I am leaving for college so I don know if I will get it in time.

Could I have a friend pick it up and put it in his name and then give it to me when I get back? Is there anymore paperwork that would be required?

Thank you

Rob
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Old January 5, 2010, 01:07 PM   #2
cabindriver
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How about giving your FFL a call?
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Old January 5, 2010, 01:08 PM   #3
Drummer101
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They said my friend can pick it up but it would be in his name.
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Old January 5, 2010, 01:13 PM   #4
cabindriver
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Wouldn't that make him the owner; almost like a straw purchase? I suppose he could 'sell' it you later. Minnesota allows for private sales. I don't see why he couldn't give it to you. For protection, I'd have some type of receipt.
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Old January 5, 2010, 01:15 PM   #5
vranasaurus
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This sounds like a straw purchase.
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Old January 5, 2010, 01:17 PM   #6
cabindriver
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Is he then delivering the rifle to you? Will the dealer hold it until you can pick it up in person?
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Old January 5, 2010, 01:22 PM   #7
USAFNoDak
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The BATFE could certainly make a case that it constitutes a straw purchase, if they had a mind to. I think you have more to worry about with federal laws than Minnesota laws, especially since this firearm is moving in interstate commerce. According to congress, anything that even remotely involves the interstate commerce clause, means that federal laws take precedent. Even if you grow too much wheat, although it's being grown for your own use, means that you have affected interstate commerce because you won't have to buy any wheat which will move in interstate commerce. That is from a USSC case and a farmer in California who grew too much wheat when there were federal limits placed on farmers as to how much wheat they could grow, to keep the price of wheat higher. I kid you not.
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Old January 6, 2010, 12:07 AM   #8
kilimanjaro
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You can solve all your straw man issues by picking up your rifle on Friday, or having the FFL dealer hold it for you, then scheduling another day soon.
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Old January 6, 2010, 01:00 AM   #9
maestro pistolero
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Has it been shipped yet? Have it sent to an FFL wherever you are going.
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Old January 6, 2010, 09:37 AM   #10
vranasaurus
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I can't believe the FFL told you it was OK.

If somone other than the actual buyer fills out the 4473 and goes through the background check then it is a straw purchase.

The FFL basically told you that they are willing to violate federal law and that its OK.
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Old January 6, 2010, 10:26 AM   #11
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You would eventually end up with a rifle that traveled in interstate commerce, which you paid for, which by Federal law requires a 4473 and NICS check for transfer to you, with someone else's name on a 4473 and a NICS check being performed on someone else.

Yep, that pretty much describes a perfect straw purchase.
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Old January 6, 2010, 02:01 PM   #12
Gbro
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They said my friend can pick it up but it would be in his name.
IANA, However drummer can relinquish his right to purchase this rifle and his friend could then make the purchase following all the required laws. I would then make the transfer to the other party through the same FFL dealer. A CYA thing if you will
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Old January 6, 2010, 03:17 PM   #13
Drummer101
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For what it matters it would be stored at his house while I am at college anyway, would at make a difference if I had it in my moms name? I am leaving Friday morning and the package is arriving Friday afternoon.

How can I have it legally put in my name later?
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Old January 6, 2010, 03:50 PM   #14
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I don't think you can have it put in your name at a later date. I'm not telling you it's OK to break any laws, but you could give your friend the cash he needs to buy the gun and let him do so. Then, at a later date, he could "gift" the rifle to you. Technically and legally, this would still be considered a straw purchase. However, it would be very hard to prove unless the BATFE is monitoring this website. If the gun is not ever traced in the event of a crime, it will probably be a non issue. However, the law is the law and you must be careful when running afoul of the law, especially a federal law.

Like the old saying goes: "Rules is rules and them's the rules, and those is fools who breaks them rules".

You're sort of in a tough spot. If you can't pick the gun up in person, either you convince the dealer to hold it for you until you can pick it up in person (offer to pay him a "storage fee"), or you risk the straw purchase and cross your fingers that you don't get caught. Or, GBro has a reasonable solution as well. Let your friend buy the rifle. Then, at a later date, go through the FFL to buy it from your friend. You may have to pay a fee to do it, depending upon the FFL.
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Old January 6, 2010, 04:58 PM   #15
Drummer101
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Then, at a later date, go through the FFL to buy it from your friend. You may have to pay a fee to do it, depending upon the FFL.
That is what I think I am going to do once I get back.
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Old January 6, 2010, 06:29 PM   #16
cabindriver
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"That is what I think I am going to do once I get back. "
At that point, why not just do a private FTF sale? It's legal in Minnesota.
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Old January 6, 2010, 07:01 PM   #17
Drummer101
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What forms are required for that?
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:14 PM   #18
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What forms are required for that?
None.
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:27 PM   #19
vranasaurus
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Not to be a jerk but you have just admitted in a public internet forum that you intend to commit a federal crime.

It doesn't really matter if you go back through an FFL later because the crime occurs when the person who fills out the 4473 lies on question 11a. Your friend would be guilty of the crime(922a(6)) and you guilty of conspiracy to commit said crime.

I don't agree with the law as the government should have to prove that the intended recipient is a prohibited person. But that is not the way the law is written.

With the way it is written now the government does not have to prove a thing about the intended recipient only that that person is different than the person who filled out the 4473.

Will you get caught? Probably not. Even so I still must strongly advise against breaking federal law and posting your intentions on a public forum.

I'll get off my soap box now.
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:33 PM   #20
DaveBeal
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Let your friend buy the rifle. Then, at a later date, go through the FFL to buy it from your friend.
Drummer, have you already paid for the rifle, or were you planning to pay for it and the transfer when you picked it up? If you haven't paid for it yet, then the above suggestion should work. However, if you've already paid for it, your friend will have a problem on the Form 4473 when he gets to the question "Are you the actual buyer of this firearm?". The actual buyer is the guy who pays for it. If you've paid, he can't legally answer "Yes" to that question.
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Old January 6, 2010, 10:07 PM   #21
Drummer101
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I will tell the ffl to hold it till further notice, my friend will not be picking it up.

Last edited by Drummer101; January 6, 2010 at 10:23 PM.
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Old January 6, 2010, 10:14 PM   #22
Drummer101
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nvm
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Old January 6, 2010, 10:23 PM   #23
NavyLT
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You can buy it from your friend with no paperwork at all. The problem is, your friend has to take it from the FFL with the express purpose of making it his own gun, to add to his private collection - whether that collection be one gun or 100 guns. Once he obtains the gun with the purpose of making it his own, what he does with the gun later doesn't matter - so long as he doesn't provide it to a prohibited person.

If he obtains that gun for the specific purpose of providing it to you for compensation, and you also made those specific arrangements with him, it is a straw purchase.

It would be legal for him to obtain the gun to use as a gift - gifts of firearms are perfectly legal. But he would have to pay for the gun himself in order for it to be a gift, obviously.
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Old January 6, 2010, 10:25 PM   #24
Drummer101
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yea, after looking up more stuff that seems to be the case, I am just going to have the ffl hold it for a few weeks.

I hope I will be able to pick it up on the 29th

I am glad I asked first.

I think it would be best for a mod to close the thread.
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