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Old January 4, 2010, 11:53 PM   #1
xplosion
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Store owner cleared in thief shooting. Michigan

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local...thief-shooting


It was very interesting to read this story and see where it said , "But this was different. Chalabi feared for his life."

You always hear to say this but to see that it does make a difference in a real investigation is great to see. Seems to me that Chalabi knew Michigan law and what he was allowed to do to defend his life/business.

I also like that last paragraph where it talks about another incident where a shop owner was not to legally brilliant.
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Old January 5, 2010, 08:44 AM   #2
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What makes this story really interesting (to me) are the comments that follow beneath the article. Most of them are positive comments.

How many people have been in the same situation and "just give the robber the money" and end up getting shot anyway? As far as I know, no law enforcement agency reimburses you for your losses when you are robbed.

My wife and I have friends, who are from China. They had a small store in Chicago that was robbed eight times in one year. They ended up selling the store because they could not afford the risk any longer. I asked the guy why he did not wear a gun while he was in the store and he told me he could not get a gun in Chicago. The criminals could, but a guy who owns a business, tries to raise a family can not. It is a sorry state when we have to worry about the welfare of common criminals over the welfare of someone who actually contributes to the community.
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Old January 5, 2010, 04:05 PM   #3
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The more crooks that get shot in the commission of a crime, the more these scumbags might consider another line of work. I find it difficult to believe that a District Attorney would prosecute a man protecting his livelihood. Yes, I know it happens. In the case of the Jeweler than shot at the crook in a crowded street, well, there is no accountability for brains or lack thereof. However, like this store owner in the story did...good for him. Chalk one up for the good guy.

Law abiding citizens that fall victim of anti-gun politicians are just that; victims. It makes it open season on them for the crooks.
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Old January 5, 2010, 04:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
I asked the guy why he did not wear a gun while he was in the store and he told me he could not get a gun in Chicago. The criminals could, but a guy who owns a business, tries to raise a family can not.
That's because he might have reason to shoot a crooked cop or alderman someday (in Chicago, some of them moonlight as armed robbers. Look it up), and we can't have that.
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Old January 5, 2010, 04:31 PM   #5
Big Bill
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I didn't think you could shoot a bullet out of a gun in Chicago without hitting a BG.

BTW, isn't that where the POTUS is from?
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Old January 5, 2010, 11:07 PM   #6
xplosion
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All those positive comments are great to see. I think that represents the thoughts of the majority in West Michigan. Makes me very grateful to be living here and not in Chicago.
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Old January 5, 2010, 11:50 PM   #7
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this is a great thing to see.

I don't know how things are in rural areas, northern or southern, but in heavily populated urban areas, you could be at gunpoint in your bed watching your wife get, e'hem... violated, (which has actually happened to someone that I know) and still get investigated and prosecuted for shooting the little @%$&^@'s.

the intruders both made the mistake of leaving my buddy and his wife in the bedroom alone after they finished their disgusting acts and apparently argued in the front room over whether or not to kill them. when they originally busted in the house, he didn't have enough time to get to his 12 gauge which was locked in a gun safe in his closet. when they returned, they each got a 00Buck to the chest.

MY FRIEND SERVED PRISON TIME FOR KILLING THEM!

on the other hand, I've heard of people in Texas shooting robbers in their front yard because they were stealing their boat motor, and they didn't even get a dirty look from the police.
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Old January 6, 2010, 12:16 AM   #8
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Looks like the thief will survive. Darwin fails me yet again.
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Old January 6, 2010, 02:29 PM   #9
nolaOE800
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hah, i don't think it's natural selection at work here.
I think it's more along the lines of a lack of human common sense.:barf:
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Old January 15, 2010, 03:21 PM   #10
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Just goes to show that you don't leave your personal defense weapon in a safe.

If it came down to it, I wouldn't mind spending time in prison if it meant keeping someone I loved from harm. Laws are great when they keep you safe, but really stupid when they keep you from saving yourself.

Glad the shop owner was "cleared" for protecting himself.
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Old January 15, 2010, 05:50 PM   #11
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"The more crooks that get shot in the commission of a crime, the more these scumbags might consider another line of work"

Plus 5!
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Old January 17, 2010, 09:27 AM   #12
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Not that it's a surprise, but the reporter has it wrong.

No one shot a thief--if he had, things would most likely have ended differently.

The store owner shot a robber. The distinction is important.

He was thus defending himself, not property.
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Old January 17, 2010, 09:38 AM   #13
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Grand Rapids is a great city in my experience. Slightly conservative and gun friendly.
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Old January 18, 2010, 01:41 AM   #14
Rich Miranda
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Quote:
Store owner cleared in thief shooting
Thief shooting? Thief shooting?

How about ARMED ROBBER shooting OR Potential Murderer shooting?

Better yet, rewrite the headline as:

Police Confirm Store Owner Acted in Self-Defense

Regardless, the criminal was not a thief.

EDIT: OldMarksman beat me to the punch. Great minds think alike, I suppose.
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Old January 18, 2010, 02:44 AM   #15
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MN allows you to carry in your place of business without a permit, and we've got a liberal cesspool government. Even our "republicans" are liberals (coleman). :barf:

Only in the home do you not need to retreat or use the least amount of force necessary, and attempt to deescalate the situation. So if this case were tried here, it might not have ended so well.

We need more bad guys in the morgue and less lawyers complaining about it.

Nice to see this one turned out right.
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Old January 18, 2010, 10:15 AM   #16
OldMarksman
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Quote:
Only in the home do you not need to retreat or use the least amount of force necessary, and attempt to deescalate the situation.
Actually, the duty to retreat when not defending an occupied domicile (or in some cases, occupied automobile or place of employment) exists in any state that does not have either a "stand your ground" law or case law to the same effect.

It was the law in some places thousands of years ago when the first codes of law were established. Also, that precept was embodied in the English Common Law that became the basis for the law in all of our states except one. It is the law, though it is not specifically stated in the statutes, in Missouri where I live. It is not the product of modern "liberal" politicians.

The reasoning of the judges who developed the Common Law was that it was necessary to distinguish between justifiable homicide and murder or death resulting from mutual combat. If a person had retreated "to the wall" before killing someone, it was pretty clear that he acted in self defense and only as a last resort.

That idea made a lot of sense in the days of edged weapons. The advent of firearms cast a different light on things.

So, today if not then, one must retreat if he or she can do so safely.

"Stand your ground" laws eliminate the duty to retreat if one is in a place where he or she has a legal right to be, but they do not eliminate the duty to try to deescalate the situation, and they do not permit the use of excessive force.
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Old January 18, 2010, 10:38 AM   #17
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Location of the incident in the OP is less than 5 minutes from my house...makes me glad that I have my CPL.
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Old January 18, 2010, 11:26 PM   #18
1911 Jim
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The fact that we have such a bias against reasonable use of lethal force is proof that the laws are NOT intended to protect those who feel the need to kill in self defense, but rather to prevent reasonable self defense through fear of repercussions of doing so. It's a criminals best friend. Call it whatever side of the political spectrum you wish.

Both of my carry instructors spent the majority of the legal section of the course discouraging the use of pulling the trigger due to the legal outcome of such an event.

I don't want the wild west, and gun fights in the street, but I also want people who feel the need to pull the trigger not to worry about leaving their wives and kids behind for years of prison time because of it.

Our laws in MN have recently finally changed to where a criminal cannot sue for damages incurred in the commission of a crime. It used to be that they could sue you for maiming them while resisting their attack, and there was even a chance they'd win!

I'm not going to shoot someone for breaking into my car (I even had the chance in `98), but I don't think I should have to run away when someone keeps advancing on me. The legal grey areas there become horrendous to the guy trying to defend his life and family.
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Old January 19, 2010, 12:12 AM   #19
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Good, I am thrilled to see a law abiding citizen cleared of wrong doing for protecting what he has worked hard for! This is how it should be everywhere!
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Old January 27, 2010, 03:09 AM   #20
earlthegoat2
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I understand Chalabi is an Iraqi transplant. Apparently he has learned the American way of shooting.
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