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Old January 6, 2010, 12:06 PM   #51
BigJimP
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I'll stack the MEC 9000HN hydraulics up against the Ponsness Warren or the Spolar .....

but the hydraulics aren't portable either - and have a pretty big footprint too.
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Old January 6, 2010, 01:08 PM   #52
zippy13
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but the hydraulics aren't portable either - and have a pretty big footprint too.
And, they ain't free.
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Old January 6, 2010, 02:48 PM   #53
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That's true but ....I believe, in terms of cost :

PW loaders are about $ 800 / then $ 250 per sub-gague or about = $ 1,500

Spolar is about $ 1,550 / then $325 per sub-gague = $ 2,500 or add another $ 1,500 for hydraulic = $ 4,000

Where MEC hydraulics are currently $ 900 / then $ 540 for each sub-gague = $ 2,500

and on the PW, you still have to pull the handle vs the hydraulic ... So I think the MEC hydraulic is priced fairly for what you get ...
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Old January 6, 2010, 07:28 PM   #54
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ONEOUNCELOAD

Nobelsport and Winchester 209's are VERY close in characteristic
s

Is it safe to use Nobelsport primers pretending as it's Winchester 209 primer or I should use totally different recipe?

I just Googled about Nobelsport primers and it looks like some people hate them due to not working all the time and also they a little bit bigger in diameter...so I'll stick with those that are recommended in the book.

Last edited by Dre; January 6, 2010 at 08:24 PM.
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:21 PM   #55
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The information I have is that NS and Win can be used in the same recipe. As with anything on the net, verify, but I am using them in the same recipe that I previously used Win 209's in.
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:47 PM   #56
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BigJimP, my friend, the MEC still pencils-out as the better bargain -- no surprise, there. But, at the price of the hydraulics, a lot of us penny-pinchers figure we can pull those MEC levers a bunch of times. Humm… can you still get your grand-kids to pull the lever for a penny a round these days?
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:51 PM   #57
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He's got that new bionic shoulder, Zippy - he can do it himself now!.....
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Old January 7, 2010, 12:45 PM   #58
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Ok, guys ...( why would I pay the grandkids ...) ....Betty making cookies is a better deal than money....

If the grandkids want money they have to go find gramdma Betty anyway ...

But since there is no handle on the hydraulics ..my bionic shoulder will last longer ..... I don't want to get muscle bound pulling on that handle all day long ...

But on a Serious Note... I have no way to prove it / but I think the consistent pressure of the hydraulic vs the variable pressure you might apply by hand - might give you a more consistent shell off a hydraulic machine.
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Old January 7, 2010, 03:05 PM   #59
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I just spoke with Hodgdon representative and he confirmed that it's safe to use the same reloading data for NS as Win...(savings)
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Old January 7, 2010, 03:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
I just spoke with Hodgdon representative and he confirmed that it's safe to use the same reloading data for NS as Win...(savings)
COOL! Thanks for checking.
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Old January 7, 2010, 05:27 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneounceload
He's got that new bionic shoulder, Zippy - he can do it himself now!.....
Now that BigJimP has had his shoulder repaired, I was thinking that pulling the lever would be good therapy for him. To that end, perhaps he's considering donating his hydraulic set-up to one of us feeble older pharts.
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Old January 7, 2010, 06:47 PM   #62
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I'm going to make room for all 4 of them - and the Dillon 650- and my Wilson Combat 1911's - and at least 3 of the Browning shotguns --- in the box .......so they can all come with me .....

I'm just barely scraping buy, making a living .... not like you "Fat Cat Retired guys" .......
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Old January 7, 2010, 11:33 PM   #63
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Is this a good powder? Has anyone used it?

HODGDON TITEWAD

How about this one?

IMR POWDER 700X

Which one would work better for targets?

Last edited by Dre; January 8, 2010 at 12:21 AM.
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Old January 8, 2010, 12:05 PM   #64
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I haven't used 700X in a long time / and its been re-formulated a lot over the last 10 yrs. On a damp evening in the 40's - shooting 700X was like shooting black powder ....with the cloud obscuring the firing line....

TiteWad is about the fastest burning powder in the Hodgdon shotshell lineup of powders. Recipes for it call for lighter drops than many other options - and that isn't bad - it means you use less. But I don't find it as good a powder as other options. Some guys that tested TiteWad a lot - claimed it caused some "blown patterns" because it was too hot...but take that with a grain of salt..

In a 12ga, I prefer Hodgdon Clays / its very consistent / I think its a little cleaner than TiteWad - and its readily available and usually cheaper than TiteWad. Clays would be my #1 recommendation for 12ga loads.

Don't confuse TiteWad with TiteGroup. TiteGroup is primarily a handgun powder ....

In 12ga I use Hodgdon Clays

in 20ga I use Hodgdon International ( but don't use it if you have full length tubes in a carrier barrel ). In a tubed gun ( not choke tubes - I mean full length tubes like Briley tubes where you insert the tube for 20ga into a 12ga barrel - to shoot 20ga shells ). Because the walls of the "tubes" are so thin, International pressures are too high - and were cracking tubes. If you have a "tubed gun" - then use Universal in 20ga.

In 28ga I use Hodgdon Universal

In .410 I use Hodgdon LilGun
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Old January 9, 2010, 03:01 PM   #65
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I've been reloading for shotguns for a little less than a decade. Gave up reloading for metallics after lots of loads through the old RCBS single stage. I started with Clays partly because the used setup I bought came with a can of it, then stayed pretty much with it because it's inexpensive, consistent, easily available as Jim mentioned and I can load up stuff from 3/4 oz to 1 1/8 oz using Hodgdon's own data and 1100 to 1300 FPS.

My pet load at the moment is......

STS hull.

WAA12SL wad or the Claybuster clone.

Win 209.

17.3 gr Clays.

30 lbs wad pressure.

7/8 oz of hard shot. This time of year it's likely 7.5, summers 8 or 8.5.

Load's right from the Database on the maker's site.

Stick to published data,and NEVER, EVER substitute anything else.

HTH...
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Old January 15, 2010, 08:47 PM   #66
Dre
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I think I'll go with Mec 9000G. Gamaliel has it for $483.95 (free shipping) Is this the best deal out there?

p.s. I just bought 1000 Win AA once fired hulls for $60.00 total

p.s.s. my club has shot for $29.00 but for me the president offered it for $23.99 #7,5 and #8 I think it is a good deal???
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Old January 15, 2010, 09:17 PM   #67
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Quote:
p.s.s. my club has shot for $29.00 but for me the president offered it for $23.99 #7,5 and #8 I think it is a good deal???
If this is new shot, even locally produced, BUY A TON or two.....seriously, a drum of 3000# at that price is great
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Old January 15, 2010, 10:13 PM   #68
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Quote:
I think I'll go with Mec 9000G. Gamaliel has it for $483.95 (free shipping) Is this the best deal out there?
You might give J & S a chance to beat that price, but the deal breaker may be the CA sales tax from Jackson.
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Old January 16, 2010, 03:18 PM   #69
Dave McC
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The 9000 is an excellent choice, Dre, but a little complicated.

MEC sells an accessory kit that includes a dental pick. You'll see why the first time a stray pellet wanders into that collet resizer.

The press will come with a 1 1/8 oz charge bar and three powder bushings. You may want to pick up 1 oz and 7/8 oz bars and some other bushings for lighter loads.

One of the big advantages of rolling your own here is tailoring a load for a shotgun, choke and game.

Shot for that price these days is a real deal. Stock up, either 8s or 7 1/2s unless you're doing lots of skeet, then 9s.

HTH....
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Old January 16, 2010, 05:39 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave McC
The press will come with a 1 1/8 oz charge bar and three powder bushings. You may want to pick up 1 oz and 7/8 oz bars and some other bushings for lighter loads.
No offense to Dave McC; but, may I suggest that you forgo the MEC bars and bushings and go directly to an adjustable bar. I've got them on all of my MECs and they make changing loads much easier and more accurate. Otherwise you're stuck with loads that work with the bars and bushings you have.

Forty years ago, my original 12-ga MEC came with a bar (before they had the individual bushings) that dropped 1-1/8 and an appropriate amount of RedDot for 1,200 ft/sec in a Double-A hull. I can't believe how many years I stuck with that load because of my hardware. I'm happy to report, there are many target crushing loads other than my initial dose of RedDot. All I need is my scale and a recipe -- the adjustable bar let's me dial right in, not just close as with MEC's bushings.

Micrometer bars have served me well for over 20-years. At one time there were cautions about using them with steel shot (the same warning applied to MEC bars w/out the internal bumpers); but, the new models have been modified for steel.

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Old January 17, 2010, 01:20 PM   #71
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Zippy and I disagree on this issue .... I don't like the adjustable bars. In my experience, they have a tendancy to come loose / go out of adjustment. Its an after-market accessory / not made by MEC.... Every static charge bar - has no adjustment on the shot side /but you can polish it a little if its light ( and they are usually light on drops of shot). On the bushing side, you can easily adjust a bushing by spinning it on a lathe or drill press / and touching them with a little emery cloth ......(and remark them ).

I keep a set of bushings ( + or minus 3 or 4 bushings on either side of the one I expect to use ) .....and a couple of extra charge bars...

The new primer tray on the MEC's is much better than the chain pull system used for years too. If you are buying a GN ( N means the new primer system is installed ).
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Old January 17, 2010, 02:33 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimP
In my experience, they have a tendancy to come loose / go out of adjustment.
I've not had that problem. Have you been remembering to tighten the set screws? Perhaps the adjustable bars are happier on manually operated presses, it wouldn't be the first time there's some weird corollary in reloading.
Quote:
On the bushing side, you can easily adjust a bushing by spinning it on a lathe or drill press / and touching them with a little emery cloth ......(and remark them ).
My friend, that seems like a bother to obtain a load that you might not use again after testing it. If I applied your method, I'd be knee deep in unused custom bushings.
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Old January 17, 2010, 03:49 PM   #73
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Gotta agree with Zippy on this - I use the Universals, at least on my single stage MECs - they haven't moved or changed in years (I'm not much for constantly tweaking my 20 and 28 loads).
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Old January 17, 2010, 05:23 PM   #74
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Maybe the universal bar I bought was a lemon guys ....but holding the adjustments was a problem even using some lock-tite. That was probably 10 yrs ago when I still had a couple of "Grabber models" - but I tossed it out and went back to the solid bars because it made me nervous. I've never tested another one .... but my buddy Dave said one of his buddies tried one and had issues as well ... So I've just chalked them up to a poor design.

I do load a number of different shells for my 12ga and 20ga - especially for the kids(although I stay with 1oz in 12ga and 7/8 oz in my 20ga / I do have some at 1150 fps, some at 1200 fps, some at 1225 fps and a few at 1275 and a quick change opening on the bar clamp and dropping in a new powder bushing makes changing my loads a lot easier than fussing with the universal charge bar. Maybe I caused the problem by fussing with the universal bar too much...

I will admit, I do have quite a few bushings ....( probably a gallon freezer bag full of them ..) but they're cheap ....
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Old January 17, 2010, 06:20 PM   #75
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After my last, I had another thought about inconsistency… BigJim, I can't remember, are you using baffles between your bars and bottles?

I don't want to sound like I'm constantly messing with my loads. Like oneounceload, I haven't changed my .410-bore and 28-ga favorite loads in ages. With the big guns, if a new powder comes out and half the gun club is singing its praise and changing over, then there's a pretty good chance I'll consider it. I may get a pound and load several boxes with different charges and shot loads and give it a try. This is when the adjustable bar is a pleasure to work with.
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