The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 4, 2010, 02:30 AM   #1
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
M1 Carbine stopped firing

I recently acquired a fantastic looking M1 Carbine from my grandfather-in-law and decided to take out for a spin. It had been in a case for years, but decided to run a few patches through it anyway. Not a thorough cleaning, just a check & lube; everything looked good.

Out at the range, I emptied the first mag (pic below - wife even got the ejected casing in the shot). Wow - what a rifle! A few minutes later I go for the second mag, pull the trigger and "click". Dropped out the mag and ejected the live round, which was chambered just fine. The back of the round was clean, no marks. I left that one out and tried again. Same click like a dry fire. Changed ammo, changed back to the original mag, no dice. Lots of clicks, noooo bang.

The dry fire action now feels the same as it did right after I cleaned it. Obviously something's broken or stuck. Any ideas?

Attached Images
File Type: jpg m1_carbine_firing.jpg (106.7 KB, 451 views)
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 4, 2010, 03:14 AM   #2
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 7,089
Firing pin.
__________________
Bill DeShivs
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old January 4, 2010, 04:12 AM   #3
10-96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2005
Location: Tx Panhandle Territory
Posts: 3,215
Yup.
Not a hard fix if you have a bolt disassembly tool. Might be worth it to have a GS do it so he can check the rest of it out for ya.

Great pic- please tell me you do some yote hunting out there!
__________________
Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day)

I'm going to use the words "clip" and "Long Colt" every chance I get. It grinds my gears to see new members attacked when we all know dang good and well what's being refered to.
10-96 is offline  
Old January 4, 2010, 12:09 PM   #4
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
Shucks, I was hoping for something other than having to take to the local gunsmith - but figured as much. Thanks, guys.

Oh, no coyotes... I was hunting soda cans!
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 4, 2010, 12:21 PM   #5
m.p.driver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 552
Google for disassemble instructions and do it yourself,its easier if you have the tool for it,but i doubt that every G.I. that carried an M-1 had it too.Take your time ,do it right,and dont tear anything up.A friend swears you can take anything apart with vice grips.
m.p.driver is offline  
Old January 4, 2010, 01:28 PM   #6
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,255
Forego the vice grips. Read through this sticky on the CMP's M1 Carbine forum for how to clean and inspect a carbine:

http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2967&highlight=firing+change


The CMP also has a general takedown set of instructions to go with:

http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/m1carbinedisassembly.pdf
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old January 4, 2010, 08:27 PM   #7
Mike40-11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 807
Yup, almost certainly a broken firing pin. See the instructions above. Disassembly and reassembly is a pain. Mostly because you need 3 hands if you don't have the tool. I would recommend buying one when you get the firing pin. Most places that have one will have the other.

You can do it manually with some small punches. Be careful though. And do it somewhere where, when the tiny little ejector spring flies out and bounces off your eyeball, you will be able to find it.
Mike40-11 is offline  
Old January 6, 2010, 08:32 PM   #8
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
Is the bolt disassembly tool I would use for the M1 Carbine a universal tool that I could use on another firearm or is it specific to this one?
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 6, 2010, 09:07 PM   #9
Mike40-11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 807
It's specific to the M1 Carbine. The M1 Garand has a similar but not interchangeable tool. Larger.
Here's the tool:
http://www.sarcoinc.com/m1c.html
You can usually find them on Gunbroker too.

And here are instructions on doing it without the tool. Seriously though, do it somewhere where you can find tiny parts that go flying.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/sergercarbinebolt.htm
Mike40-11 is offline  
Old January 6, 2010, 09:43 PM   #10
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,255
I like to keep a sheet of plastic window glass substitute for this kind of job. Cut two arm holes in one side of a cardboard box, set the plastic sheet on it for a lid and do your disassembly inside it. When stuff takes off the cardboard stops if from crossing the room.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old January 7, 2010, 02:10 AM   #11
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
OK wow. I thought you guys were kidding about the springs flying. I'm not going to try to disassemble this beautiful rifle if I have to do it in a damn NASA vacuum chamber! I'll just take it to the local GS. I have a Marlin 22 rifle that I was cleaning and the trigger assembly pretty much expanded into a thousand pieces and now it's in a Ziploc bag. Would hate to have that happen with this one too.

Thanks again for the info!
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 7, 2010, 03:23 AM   #12
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,632
Everything mentioned is possible.

In addition,if a carbine's bolt is not fully rotated into battery,the hammer will strike the bolt,not the firing pin.
What can cause that?Ammo with the case length a bit long,causing a tight head clearance condition.Using cast bullers,that are shaving lead onto the case mouth crimp issues,some hard stuck gunge in the chamber,gunge in the slide's bolt cam.Another spot to look for some trouble,gas cylnuts sometimes back out.

I second the idea of the box and flying springs.Been there!!

The bolt tool and a gas cylinder lock wrench are worthy tools to own.

If you will be using 30 rd mags,I highly suggest an M-2 mag catch.

Your mags will last longer.

Last edited by HiBC; January 7, 2010 at 03:34 AM.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 7, 2010, 08:25 AM   #13
TLeo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 229
Get the bolt tool mentioned. It really is not as hard as it may sound to take the extractor and firing pin out and using the tool makes it very easy. You can find them on gunbroker or gun shows.
TLeo is offline  
Old January 7, 2010, 09:04 AM   #14
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 16,849
Another vote for doing it yourself. Use the cardboard box to keep it from competing with NASA.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old January 7, 2010, 12:10 PM   #15
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
Hmmm... I suppose as long as I don't lose any parts, if I do it myself and can't get it back together, in theory it shouldn't cost me any more for the GS to reassemble it. There's a gun show this weekend I'm going to; if I can find the tools there then I'll give it a shot and will report back.

How do you like that flip-flop? Good thing I'm not a politician! haha
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 8, 2010, 08:16 PM   #16
brandx
Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2004
Posts: 41
Having the bolt tool is a good idea, but first take the bolt out and see if the firing pin is, in fact, broken. As HiBC said it could just be something not letting the bolt rotate into full lock.
brandx is offline  
Old January 9, 2010, 03:14 AM   #17
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,263
Give it a serious bath before you do anything else. Drop the bolt into a vat of solvent and leave it there for 24 hours. Chances are that the firing pin is fine, but the bolt is full of crud. Kind of odd that it'd fire one mag then stop though.
"...gas cylinder lock wrench..." Not required. The gas cylinder was never removed for normal cleaning.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old January 9, 2010, 09:15 PM   #18
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
Attempting to pull it apart now and I'm stuck (literally) on step 18 of this doc:

http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/m1carbinedisassembly.pdf

Seems that the bolt will NOT pivot away from the slide to be able to come out. Anyone have experience doing this?

DID IT!! Jesus that took two people!
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 9, 2010, 09:40 PM   #19
amd6547
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 1,407
What kind of ammo were you using? I shot some MagTech in my M1 carbine, and had a couple instances of spent primers falling out of the fired case...One fell into the action and prevented the bolt from closing.
__________________
The past is gone...the future may never happen.
Be Here Now.
amd6547 is offline  
Old January 9, 2010, 09:55 PM   #20
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,632
I'm not sure what you are having trouble with.Generally,US service weapons are made to be field stripped easily.

When working on them,do not force parts.If force is required,stop,look,think.

At the , end of the recoil spring nearest the muzzle,draw back the spring and guide .

Note the groove in the side of the reciever the slide rides in.there is a notch in that groove just behind that square corner of the opening in the top of the receiver.If you pull the op handle back tothat notch and lift up and out,it will come free easily pull the bolt forward,up,and to the right,and it will lift right out.

On the underside of the barrel,note the notch through the groove on the nautical port side of the rifle.That notch allows the slide to roll off couterclockwise.

Look over these pieces and see the features,Understand how they work,and it all gets very simple.

A test many,if not all,troops learned ,is to be able to fields strip and reaasemble their weapon in under 1 minute,blindfolded.

If you have some plain old tan lubriplate automotive grease,put a little on that cam where the bolt and slide fit together,and on the rails where the slide fits the barrel.A little oil in the spring ang guide is good,just generally look at where metal rubs metal and lube a little.

But,not in the gas cylinder under the barrel.

I suspect your carbine has no broken parts,it just needs good ammo,good mags,and to be clean and lubricated.

There are repro army field manuals available ,and there is one for the carbine.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 9, 2010, 09:59 PM   #21
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
Got it allllll disassembled. With some help from the wife (USAF Security Forces), who has disassembled many-a-weapons! I'm happy to report no broken parts. The small parts of the bolt were filthy, but the firing pin looked quite clean when removed from the bolt. Wish us luck putting it back together.

As far as the ammo, amd, it was given to us along with the gun, so I'm sure it's pretty old. UGH - I hope that wasn't the problem because I will feel DUMB. It's JHPs and on the back it has "L C 54" on most and some others have "WCC 53". What's that mean anyway?
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 9, 2010, 11:34 PM   #22
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,632
The markings on the brass indicate it is military brass,which would never be loaded originally with hollow points.

That says these are reloads of unknown origin.I do not shoot those.

It is an indication it is possible your problem could be ammo related.Something else to check,

Military brass comes with a crimped in primer.This crimp must be removed before reloading.If everything is not just right,the crimp makes it more likely a primer would not be fully seated.Look at your primers,feel with a thumbnail.Are any of them high?
This can keep the bolt from fully closing.

My suggestion,maybe if someday you take up reloading you can pull bullets,and use some components,but just put that ammo in a coffee can,label it "unknown reloads" and set it aside.

Buy some new ammo.PMC,Fiocchi,or some USA brand and try it.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 10, 2010, 01:48 AM   #23
motofabio
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2009
Location: California - ugh! :(
Posts: 26
I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking... they are not JHPs, I meant FMJ. That said, if the markings indicate Military brass, then it's definitely quite old.

That aside, it's all reassembled now and I think the problem was that the ejector mechanism was so fouled that it wasn't lifting and allowing the round to seat down against the bolt, thus not allowing the firing pin to ever reach the back of the round. This explains why the "misfired" rounds didn't have any dings. I'm sure that everything's fine now that it's been properly cleaned and oiled - but unfortunately I cannot simply step out into my backyard and fire off a few as I live in the city.

Back to the ammo... is age a factor? Grandpa got this gun in 1967 and said he only fired a few rounds from it, which tells me the ammo could be nearly 40 years old!
__________________
motofabio
motofabio is offline  
Old January 10, 2010, 04:09 AM   #24
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
Well, one thing is in your favor: No American loaded carbine ammo was ever corrosive.
gyvel is offline  
Old January 10, 2010, 07:10 AM   #25
10-96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2005
Location: Tx Panhandle Territory
Posts: 3,215
Just out of curiosity, have you taken the bolt out and pushed the firing pin as far forward as possible with your finger? If you see a nice- rounded end of the pin protrube from the bolt face then you were correct in it (and possibly the chamber) being dirty or otherwise excessively funky.
__________________
Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day)

I'm going to use the words "clip" and "Long Colt" every chance I get. It grinds my gears to see new members attacked when we all know dang good and well what's being refered to.
10-96 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13605 seconds with 8 queries