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Old January 5, 2010, 11:04 AM   #26
goodspeed(TPF)
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Glock 20(sf) in 10mm.
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Old January 5, 2010, 01:05 PM   #27
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I'd chose the 44 Mag (and did). Who said overkill on smaller threats is bad? There are loads for the 44 Mag that go from 500-1200 ft/lbs @ the muzzle. I think that covers just about anything. Not to mention handloads. You can get a ported barrel as well if need be. You had also mentioned the possibility of being in grizzly country. The 44 Mag is marginal. The other 3 choices aren't much of a choice. Shotshells can be had or made as well. Speer sells empty shotshell cases. And then there is the 41 Mag....
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Old January 5, 2010, 04:00 PM   #28
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I dont have any issues running 200g flat point ammo through my Nighthawk 10mm. Most (ok, maybe half) 10mm bullets are flat nose (truncated cone) anyhow. If my tight 1911 chamber will feed them the a glock certainly will if thats what you want.

I'd go with the glock 20SF. If you want a little better comfort carrying get a 4" 1911 with bobtail. Personally I would stick to the 4.5-5" barrels to get the most velocity possible.

I purchased my 10mm for exactly the same reasons. Although I might pick up a 20SF myself for woods carry. The Nighthawk is just too nice to bang around.
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Old January 5, 2010, 05:01 PM   #29
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Thanks for all the advice.

The 10mm is the winner for my purposes. On top of higher capacity, the Glock finish is very durable, even more-so than stainless steel. I haven't looked at many revolvers, but I've yet to find one with sights that I like as much as the Glock sights.

Still, I think I'll look at and maybe shoot a .44Mag before I make my purchase, but I'm still pretty sold on a 10mm Glock.
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Old January 5, 2010, 05:33 PM   #30
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Well, since you have made up your mind, it is really more in your mind than not. I used a 44 Mag while living in Alaska and still would. I really think your possible episodes with a black bear will be non=existant.
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:38 PM   #31
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+1 for the 10mm.
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Old January 6, 2010, 11:21 PM   #32
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I'm 6'2" and 210 pounds. Compare the black bear -- they ain't all small!

Sure, some black bears are small, but some are like that guy 450-500#.



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Old January 7, 2010, 09:32 AM   #33
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my uncles last black bear was 240lbs, it was as tall as a 9yr old girl.
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Old January 7, 2010, 11:34 AM   #34
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Weight is important to me when I go into the outback. So, I carry a light weight .44 magnum, the S&W 329PD. I can mix the ammunition any which way I like ... usually the 1st round is a shot shell, the next two are Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Special Hollow Points, followed by two .44 magnum Jacketed Soft Points and the 6th is a heavy Hard Cast Flat Nose load, such as 305 grain Buffalo Bore.
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Old January 7, 2010, 12:32 PM   #35
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The G20 has such awful handling characteristics for me that I chose the 4" DA .357 Magnum as a woods sidearm. I have never yet needed one round, let alone sixteen. I am looking to "move up" to a six inch barrel for its greater sight radius though.

The revolver, being able to use down loaded .38 Special "squirrel rounds," as well as the curbstompers from the top of the ballistics tables, is a more versatile platform. Revolvers can be field braced against trees without seriously impairing their ability to fire follow up shots. They can be fired with precision from a single action mode. Revolvers can feature factory standard adjustable sights for different loads, they are easier to scope, and the grip is alterable without permanent modifications to the weapon too.

Revolvers of the requisite caliber are better suited to the role of woods gun than are autos. Autos excel in the self-defense role in the sticks, but they are readily outshone at hunting by a decent revolver.
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Old January 7, 2010, 01:36 PM   #36
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"but if you need a gun to deal with a snake, you're not being creative enough."

So tell, Oh Wise One, would a custom machete/scimitar work better for this task?
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Old January 7, 2010, 01:48 PM   #37
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I've used a 10mm (Delta Elite) as a woods gun several times and would not hesitate to do so again. I have nothing against the other calibers, but I just prefer the 10mm for my own use.
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Old January 7, 2010, 03:06 PM   #38
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10mm in a Glock 29 is my go-to gun in the wilds of Michigan where black bear is the biggest predator you're liable to encounter, and cougar and lynx are seemingly even rarer. Until I got my G29, it was my old faithful Colt Delta Elite. I'm a firm believer in 10mm ever since the 80s. If I was ever to venture into Grizzly country though, even the .44 mag would be woefully inadequate to me, and I would be far more comfortable with my SAR-48 with several 20 round mags. Personally, I just don't think you can swat those creatures too hard, and I am in awe of the people that live there and contend with that possibility every day.
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Old January 8, 2010, 01:45 AM   #39
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+1 10mm. Still don't understand the need to kill snakes.
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Old January 8, 2010, 02:20 AM   #40
Jim March
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So, I carry a light weight .44 magnum, the S&W 329PD. I can mix the ammunition any which way I like ... usually the 1st round is a shot shell, the next two are Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Special Hollow Points, followed by two .44 magnum Jacketed Soft Points and the 6th is a heavy Hard Cast Flat Nose load, such as 305 grain Buffalo Bore.
Ummm...have you tested that combination at the range? Because I strongly suspect you'll never be able to fire those heavy hardcasts at the end - the recoil in that ultra-light gun is likely to make them jump crimp and tie the gun up by then.
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Old January 8, 2010, 02:34 AM   #41
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Another vote for the Glock 20.
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Old January 8, 2010, 10:51 AM   #42
Hook686
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Jim March wrote:

Quote:


Quote:
So, I carry a light weight .44 magnum, the S&W 329PD. I can mix the ammunition any which way I like ... usually the 1st round is a shot shell, the next two are Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Special Hollow Points, followed by two .44 magnum Jacketed Soft Points and the 6th is a heavy Hard Cast Flat Nose load, such as 305 grain Buffalo Bore.

Ummm...have you tested that combination at the range? Because I strongly suspect you'll never be able to fire those heavy hardcasts at the end - the recoil in that ultra-light gun is likely to make them jump crimp and tie the gun up by then.
Jim that Hard Cast is the 6th round in the cylinder. I have never been able to last 3 rounds at the range with that cartridge. It really jerks my arm. I figure if I've gone through the previous 5 shots (none that cause any crimp jump) and still need to shoot I'm in a situation where pain from the recoil is the least of my troubles. By then, there are no more loaded rounds in the cylinder, so there can be no crimp jump. The only rounds I've had crimp jump on me are reloads I've done. I do not load my reloads into the 329PD for personal potection purposes for that reason. I use Speer, Buffalo Bore, and Remington when I want to rely upon the 329PD for personal defense purposes.
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Old January 8, 2010, 09:28 PM   #43
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Hook686,

I think he's worried that the OTHER rounds fired first will cause the 305gr bullet to jump crimp. It sounds like you've done the testing to prove they won't, but if you haven't it's probably worth loading the gun as you describe, cranking off the first 5 rounds (leaving the hardcast in place but unfired), reloading the first 5 and shooting them again. If the hardcast rounds till hasn't jumped crimp after that then shoot it for practice and consider that load combination to be tested.
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Old January 9, 2010, 02:18 PM   #44
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Glock 20 with extended barrel and Double tap 200grain hardcast would seem to be good bear medicine.
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Old January 10, 2010, 01:42 AM   #45
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I asked that question recently, and the answer I received was that if a person got bitten by a snake, someone in the party should kill it to show the medical personnel so as to get the correct antivenin.
Slightly left of topic, but please don't do this.

1) Severed snake heads can still bite and envenimate. It is a reflex action and does not require a live brain. You never want to generate a second victim in order to help the first one.

2) Bring a dead or half dead snake to an ED and they are going to freak. Seriously. I've been there when it happens.

3) At least in Northern Mexican, the US and Canada, there are really only two basic antivenins. Almost all bites are going to be crotalids (pit vipers). There is a polyvalent antivenin that covers all of these. For the extremely rare coral snake bite, the antivenin is rarely needed and almost impossible to get. So the decision is usually if a person will be treated and not with what antivenin. In rare cases where it is unclear, s few quick questions will differentiate. Most snakes in the US are not venomous anyway.

4) If you can shoot it with a gun, you can shoot it with a camera. The pictures are then easily sent to someone who can actually identify the snake. Few Emergency Physicians can reliably identify a snake. Once you mangle the head, many distinguishing features are lost. Then you need someone who can do it based on coloring.

5) There are plenty of snakes on the endangered species list. Taking out a harmless one for ID purposes, could have you trying to keep yourself out of club Fed.

So, in short. Unless it is going to hurt you, don't shoot it. And don't shoot it, then bring it to the ED.
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Old January 10, 2010, 02:11 AM   #46
uncyboo
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You're way the heck out in the woods or desert or whatever. You see a snake. Under what possible circumstances is shooting it a good idea?

Seriously?
Because they are mighty tasty floured and fried.

I love the 10mm, especially in a 1911 style pistol, but if I was really concerned with "danger" in the wilderness I'd take the 44 mag. Not everyone can shoot a 44 well enough to stake their safety on it, though.
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Old January 10, 2010, 11:21 AM   #47
ClayInTx
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Don’t use pepper spray on bears; use salt & pepper spray. the bears have found that makes you much tastier.

For protection from any possible predator I recommend carrying what will handle all. What takes care of the biggest will also take care of the smallest. Recoil should not be the limiter for SD, you’re not going out there for target practice.
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Old November 27, 2012, 12:39 AM   #48
jwfrazier
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Sorry to revive an old thread, but the 10mm just wont compare to the .357 mag as a bear defense round.

10mm 180 gr. 1287 fps
.357 mag 180 gr. 1422 fps

as per Hodgdon manual
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:47 AM   #49
Redhawk5.5+P+
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OP
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I have Corbon 200g hard cast .357s at 1250 fps, I also have Underwood XTP 200g JHP 10mm at 1250 fps.

Even the 155g 10mm at 1500 fps has close to the same energy although just slightly less.

So what's your point?
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Old November 27, 2012, 01:44 PM   #50
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jwfrazier,

I see it's your first post so welcome to the forum.

It's just my opinion but I see that you revived an almost 3 year old thread, the topic of which is a fella trying to work out what caliber might be best for him for a backcountry gun which is a very common topic here, in order to give your opinion on which round is capable of generating more energy and velocity the 357 Magnum or the 10mm. In doing so you compel readers to relive the whole 3 year old discussion in order to get to your opinion on caliber ballistics.

Looks like your opinion on this is a valuable one and it may have best been served by starting a new thread on this topic. Some old threads deserve to be kept alive, photo threads for example, others can be left in peace. Just my opinion though.

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