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Old December 16, 2009, 12:25 PM   #1
johnwilliamson062
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Price of M16/M4 for .gov

Anyone know what is being paid? Maybe not an exact number but something within $50 or something.
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Old December 16, 2009, 12:28 PM   #2
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Probably the same amount they pay for a hammer...


$2500.
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Old December 16, 2009, 02:07 PM   #3
Bartholomew Roberts
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According to this article, Colt CEO William Keys says that the Colt M4 without accessories costs the Army $800 ($1,300 for the M4 with rail system, BUIS, seven magazines and a sling).
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Old December 16, 2009, 02:20 PM   #4
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Good info. I can hardly believe they are paying that much, then again it is the government...
Anyone have any idea how many are in service?
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Old December 16, 2009, 03:13 PM   #5
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Well, what do you think they should be paying? Remember, someone in another thread said the contracts always go to the lowest bidder.
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Old December 16, 2009, 03:16 PM   #6
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That is not far off from what I can pay for a milspec M4. I would expect them to get some sort of volume discount.
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Old December 16, 2009, 03:25 PM   #7
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You can get a Mil Spec M4 for $800? Do tell... Now a DPMS I can believe but those aren't quite Mil Spec.
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Old December 16, 2009, 04:07 PM   #8
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You are right. Looking into it more the rifles I looked at were not quite mil-spec. Is production cost on a 1:9 barrel more than a 1:7?
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Old December 16, 2009, 04:53 PM   #9
Bartholomew Roberts
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At $800 retail, I am betting there are a lot more differences than a 1:9 twist vs 1:7 twist. There are dozens of places to deviate from M4 specs and save money.
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Old December 16, 2009, 05:16 PM   #10
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Feed ramp, buffer tube, those are common ones to cut corners on. There are companies that will cut corners on anything and everything with some of their low end models.
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Old December 16, 2009, 05:18 PM   #11
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so what is the price I would have to pay for the same as what the army gets?
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Old December 16, 2009, 05:21 PM   #12
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about $1200, not a bad deal considering that it is probably one of the (if not THE) best AR15s civilian money can buy.
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Old December 16, 2009, 05:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
so what is the price I would have to pay for the same as what the army gets?
Probably between $6000 and $10000. Maybe more.

Them selector switches are expensive...
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Old December 16, 2009, 06:28 PM   #14
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what is the model number of the colt that most closely matches up with standard government issue, not counting selected fire?
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Old December 16, 2009, 06:37 PM   #15
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The Colt LE6921 is the closest semi-auto version; but is still an NFA weapon due to the 14.5" barrel. The Colt LE6920 is the same thing with a 16" barrel.
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Old December 16, 2009, 10:11 PM   #16
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Well, what do you think they should be paying? Remember, someone in another thread said the contracts always go to the lowest bidder.
Doesnt matter when Colt owns the copyrights to the firearm.
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Old December 16, 2009, 11:47 PM   #17
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Colt owns the copyright on a firearm? Colt owns the copyright on the prancing pony symbol and probably the Ar15 name.

I think you mean patent. They did own it, but it is expired.

They probably have patents on somethings, like maybe M4 feed ramps, that are recent designs. (That's just a guess, I don't know if it's true.)
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Old December 17, 2009, 01:21 AM   #18
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I guess I'm a little late on this, but I went and talked to the supply guy and our armorer today when they got in and was given "About a grand each," from each of them.

Seems to line up with what everyone else is saying.
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Old December 17, 2009, 01:36 PM   #19
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Unless you can purchase a Government firearm, it's not likely milspec. The administration, supervision, testiing, and documentation to milspec standard isn't required for civilian sales. I seriously doubt Colt spends the money to do it.

They may be making the parts on the same machine by the same processes, but testing one in 100 gets them the same result as MPI testing each. Unless the part is marked and certified the same, and sourced from government channels, it's not milspec.

It's a certification of the process.

I haven't heard of anyone getting a multipage document with a tree diagram of every part sourced and a sign off of each step in manufacture, testing , and assembly. That only happens to carbines shipped to the Government.

Colt, FN, even GM Saginaw have done that. It has nothing to do with the Technical Data Package. That is Colt's recipe for how they did it. The Army has that in their possession, and Colt must still be renumerated by whoever uses it.
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Old December 17, 2009, 02:20 PM   #20
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Don't get hung up on "milspec", it isn't some magical standard, it is only a baseline standard.

Our service rifle teams use non "milspec" rifles from White Oak, Compass Lake, or Rock River. There are plenty of really great rifles that don't even bother with the whole "milspec" thing because the testing is just added expense.

Milspec barrels are not made by hammer forging, one of the reasons that they need magnetic particle testing to be milspec in the first place.

The Marine Corps Pistol Team WAY back in the day replaced their milspec barrels with BARSTO barrels every year (giving rise to the myth that you need to replace your 1911 barrel every 5000 rounds for optimum accuracy). They bought new barrels every year just to keep the funding flowing, after all if they didn't use the parts fund to buy parts then the budget would be reduced.

There are a lot of very good AR manufacturers out there, no need to get hung up on "milspec".

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Old December 17, 2009, 03:55 PM   #21
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Mine was free - They would just issue it from the arms room when I needed it....
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Old December 17, 2009, 03:57 PM   #22
johnwilliamson062
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Yeah, i bought a non-milspec M4 a while back. I was looking for this info for a letter.
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Old December 17, 2009, 04:01 PM   #23
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$800-1300 USD hahaha

Colt should really start selling to us Pakistanis as we pay $3,048 USD for a Vietnam era M16, $6,707 USD for a M4 and $8,536 USD for a M4A1.

At a retail price of even $2000 USD I promise more than half a million pcs sold in less than a month.
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Old December 17, 2009, 04:04 PM   #24
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This may be getting away from the general topic of the thread but, in theory, any machine shop could make an AR-15 if it were suitably equipped, although the devil may be in the details. Some firearms in WWII were manufactured by companies that had never made a firearm before. In essence, the firearm is just another manufactured product.

I know there's more to it than that. Some of the equipment might be highly specialized, like the rifling equipment, and some processes, such as heat treating, call for a lot of oversight. One could say it boils down to the inspection process. For some curious reason, there are certain assemblies on firearms that everyone seems to have a lot of trouble getting right, namely magazines. You would think that after a hundred years, the tricks would have been mastered, yet it is a common subject in this forum. It must be the first place the manufacturer goes when they want to cut corners.

None of this is to say that anyone could design a gun, which is another story, yet some brilliant designers were no engineers, just brilliant designers, but maybe they had more help than they get credit for.

My late father-in-law was an aeronautical engineer and he worked for the government. He had something to do with some helicopter designs but he retired over 30 years ago. Once my son asked him what some particular helicopter that he had worked on cost and he had no idea. But I also seem to remember that in the army, the cost of a 105mm howitizer was stenciled on the inside of one of the trails. I have no idea if it was accurate or not.

Good question, though.
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Old December 17, 2009, 04:04 PM   #25
johnwilliamson062
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You are talking full auto though, right? You could move full auto rifles in the US at those prices by the millions.
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