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Old December 16, 2009, 06:17 PM   #26
KenpoTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Quote:
"....I happen to prefer a knife up close,......"

I'm sorry, but does anyone else consider that a reasonable aproach to the situation described? It sounds like a perfect prescription to getting your entire car (and occupants) hosed down with Kalashnikov fire.
agreed.
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Old December 17, 2009, 05:20 AM   #27
ranburr
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In a vehicle you have three options:

1.) Drive away

2.) Run over bad guys

3.) Fight your way out of the vehicle.

Sitting in a car and doing nothing turns it into a coffin on wheels.
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Old December 17, 2009, 06:27 AM   #28
LordofWar
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Knife is totally out of the question in such a situation, but after watching movies & how handy a knife can be in various situation I do carry a Gerber on/off.

Again, I really would'nt care if its a mugging situation even if the BG is carrying a blade and I have an RPG under the seat. I'll just handover anything that might be of material interest to him & have him on his way.

My only concern here is a kidnapping situation or where physical harm in the intention.

What do you guys think of a sawed off shotgun, to a handgun's measurements? Should it be used on first contact instead of a handgun or should I stick with my full auto Glocks?
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Old December 17, 2009, 06:31 AM   #29
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I'm not sure of the legality of it in Pakistan, but in South Africa, car jackings got so bad that someone installed flame throwers on the sides of their vehicles. While this may not be instantly incapacitating, it ought to change their focus very quickly.

Other than not allowing yourself to get boxed in, there is really not much you can do when you have two armed attackers on both sides. Even if you punch the gas and try to run them over, they may open fire. I'm not sure what your chances are of surviving automatic rifle fire. The other option is to consider investing in an "acceptable" bullet proof vehicle for your wife. I know those things get very pricey, but compared to paying ransom or worse, it is a smart investment.
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Old December 17, 2009, 06:40 AM   #30
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I sawed off shotgun is still going to be pretty big if you saw it off flush with the "pump". You will also have very limited shot capacity. You could go with a revolver like the Taurus Judge which can fire .410 shot shells. Regardless, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to engage both attackers before they can return fire. Besides, you will have to worry about firing past your family members to engage the attacker on your other side.
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Old December 17, 2009, 07:01 AM   #31
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Read the whole thread pls.
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Old December 17, 2009, 07:57 AM   #32
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If you are blocked and need to ram a car, do it in reverse, away from your engine / radiator and such so that you don't inadvertently disable your own vehicle.
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Old December 17, 2009, 12:01 PM   #33
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I believe your Glocks are better weapons than a very short shotgun. The glocks have better abilties regarding vehicle penetration, both firing into or out of a vehicle. I believe your hollow point 9mm ammo, particulalry in full auto, would be a better stopper than buck or birdshot. I'm not a fan of shotguns in general, for a number of reasons. They have their uses, but I don't think they are the "death ray" that many seem to feel they are.


The flame thrower in the sides of the vehicle idea is interesting. As long as you are aware of whats happening around you, you can achieve much the same effect with the Glocks in an unarmored vehicle. The key is not letting anyone get close enough before you are aware of them.
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Old December 18, 2009, 11:10 PM   #34
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Do you have door locks and an accelerator pedal?
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Old December 19, 2009, 01:33 AM   #35
Balog
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The first thing I thought of when reading this thread was the South African under carriage flame thrower. I'd imagine one could retrofit it to a non-armored car in such a way as to not stifle your family.

In a serious kidnap attempt, there will most likely be more than two aggressors. De-assing the AO is vital, every bit as much so as putting down the BG's immediately. Putting structure between you and the aggressors would be a good idea, but I'd be wary of men on rooftops and possible blocking positions down nearby streets.

I think the critical element is distraction. Getting both aggressors to not be looking at you at the same time, combined with very fast reflexes and short accurate bursts while driving evasively will be critical. Did I mention the fast reflexes?

Also, you obviously have resources. I'd get professional training, both in driving and fighting. I'd also get training for my family, so they can be an effective part of a counter response instead of victims needing protection.

My sympathies on this situation. Being in WA state, I know people who coordinate with Bill Gates' security people. I've always made "not being important enough to be a specific target" one of my life goals. It certainly limits my options career-wise, but I feel it's a worthy trade off.
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Old December 19, 2009, 10:22 AM   #36
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Another recommendation...

Hello, Lord of War!

I can sympathize with your issues, especially when it comes to trying to protect family members who don't exactly appreciate the risks, and the fact that you're actually trying to protect them.

I don't know whether it's legal in Pakistan, but when ever I travel in the Philippines, I insist on using a large van with very dark tint on all the external glass, including the windscreen. If I stand outside the vehicle and can see the driver, or can count the number of occupants in the vehicle, I refuse to use it. While going about in such a heavily-tinted vehicle presents its own set of problems at night (reduced visibility), I much prefer it to becoming a sitting duck.

This simple precaution makes it impossible for any one without very up-to-the-minute intel to know exactly how many people are in the van, and where the intended targets are positioned (excepting the driver).

Some times I sit in row 2, other times in row 3, just to give me more visibility and room to maneuver in case a scenario like the one you mentioned takes place.

Like you, I also prefer the Glock as my final option.

Just some thing to think about when a Level 7 bulletproof vehicle isn't readily available...
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Old December 19, 2009, 10:29 AM   #37
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Postscript...

The more practical alternative to the South African external flamethrower idea is to mount capsicum spray dispensers with nozzles outside the vehicle, between every window.

They pose less of fire hazard and come as a totally unexpected surprise to would-be attackers.
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