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Old December 8, 2009, 07:03 PM   #26
Action_Can_Do
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Yeah, 22lr will go through 55 gallon drums. And I don't doubt for a second that that target is 500 yards away. The distance from the closest pole to the target might be 150yds, but I suspect it's closer to 200.
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Old December 8, 2009, 07:20 PM   #27
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It doesn't "look" like 500yrds but I'm not about to call anyone a liar. Somebody with a milldot scope and a big Hi-def computer screen should range it out for us... HaHa. Oh and 22lr will go through a drum all day. Even out of a Walther P22.
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Old December 8, 2009, 07:22 PM   #28
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500 yards - yes.

Quote:
Sure don't look like 500 yards to me.
It sure does to me. That target looks awfully small.
Using the telephone poles as a measure only works if you know how tall they are to begin with. Any pole that is non standard will throw the calculation off.
A better measure is to look at the tire tracks close to the camera . How wide is a pick-up track? How wide is a tire? Notice how they go over a small rise and disappear. Imagine a pick-up truck sitting in those tracks. How tall would it be? Then take a look again at the closest pole. It's pretty far.
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Old December 8, 2009, 07:27 PM   #29
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I'm more inclined to use the known width of the telephone pole, as opposed to the hight.
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Old December 8, 2009, 08:15 PM   #30
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I was able to put 7 of 14 shots in 39", on target. Which, if you figure that out, boils down to less than 2" at 25 yards which is not bad in itself.
maybe thats the problem getting 1/2 your shots in a 2" group @ 25 yards may be an accurate gun to you, however accurate guns will shoot better than 2" groups at twice that distance.my HK P7 has and will keep all shots on a notebook size target @ 100 yards and I've no doubt they're many handguns that would keep all their shots on a sheet of plywood at 500 yards.
your ability to maintain "combat accuracy" with a Glock out to 500 is impressive.But I'm still not impressed with the mechanical accuracy.heck I've seen an old fat man shoot balloons at 200 yards with a SAA.
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Old December 8, 2009, 10:18 PM   #31
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there's no way a 40cal bullet is going to travel 500 yards, and then penetrate completely through a steel drum.
You have absolutely no idea how wrong you are.
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Old December 8, 2009, 10:40 PM   #32
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You have absolutely no idea how wrong you are.

maybe so, my friend. but i would have to see it to believe it.
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Old December 8, 2009, 11:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
Does the .40 S&W still have any ass left by the time it has traveled 500 yards?
The first time we tried this, we used 55-gallon drums for targets. The .40 bullets went through both sides with no problem at all.
That has to be the flattest 500 yard trajectory I have ever seen for a gun fired at 500 yards. Based on the image with the rod showing the trajectory through the barrel, it is virtually flat/parallel to the ground.

Considering the amount of drop at that distance, there is no way the holes indicated could have been formed by a single shot fired at 500 yards.
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Old December 8, 2009, 11:18 PM   #34
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Google youtube for hickok45 - he's amazing...like a real life John Wayne. The history channel should hire him for their firearms segments.
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Old December 8, 2009, 11:24 PM   #35
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long range handgun

My thought is this, it's his gun, his time to shoot it as much as it takes to do what he wants it to do... pratice..pratice...pratice...most people spend more time and money adding shiny bling to their guns then time on the range... I believe this, if he say's he can ,then he can, who am I to call BS? I've made shots that others would call BS or crazy...if you haven't then your not a shooter...

I've hit steel at 200 yds with my 45 ACP...not every time, but I've done it, I killed a deer at 300 yds with the 14th shot out of a 357 6" colt trooper.. had I wounded it and it had gotten away I would have carried that guilt all my life, but I was young, dumb and trying to impress people.... would I do it again? never...

Elmer Keith was a great shot, just ask him, well not now but .... I know people who shot with him and say he was a true pistol shooter "AND" a wonderful BS artist... who cares...he could tell a great story...
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Old December 8, 2009, 11:32 PM   #36
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Many years ago at my range in Pennsylvania I watched a man ring a 300 meter 24" steel plate swinging gong with a Beretta 9mm, IIRC 10 times out of 20, from a sitting position.
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Old December 9, 2009, 12:06 AM   #37
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I must be slow tonight. It looks like the amount of drop reverses and by 500 yds there is no longer any drop to compensate for????

The amount of drop and lead is about 2 foot in the first 25 yards??

Is this seriously messed up or am I just dumber than a box of rocks?

jb
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Old December 9, 2009, 12:14 AM   #38
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It's not messed up.

In order to get a 500 yard zero you would be nearly 26 inches high at 25 yards, and it's dropping like a rock (which is actually exactly the same as dropping like a bullet) at 500 yards. It loses almost 36 inches in the last 25 yards.

The lead is based on a moving target, can't remember how fast. I ignored that part, should have changed it to zero. Anyway, doesn't have much bearing on this case.
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Old December 9, 2009, 12:51 AM   #39
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First picture looks like 500yds to me.

Any of you non believer's , ever shot a target 500yds out ?
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Old December 9, 2009, 01:14 AM   #40
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Old December 9, 2009, 08:40 AM   #41
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You folks really need to get out more. Try a range with a decent long backstop, and burn some powder. It would be one thing for someone to honestly say that they have shot extensively at long range and just can't get the hang of it, and therefore have some skeptisism of those who can, and it is another thing entirely to just dismiss as BS some shooting which many of us understand as entirely feasable and doable. Ignoring reality just makes a person look like a fool. Calling a man a liar, or alluding to it at least, in this situation makes you look like an ill mannered fool.
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Old December 9, 2009, 09:03 AM   #42
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Quote:
I must be slow tonight. It looks like the amount of drop reverses and by 500 yds there is no longer any drop to compensate for????
you wouldnt have to compensate for drop at 500 yards if the guns sights are zeroed at 500 yards like the program he used.of course with a ~2" tall rear sight your now going to have to hold two feet low to hit the 25yard target.
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Old December 9, 2009, 09:22 AM   #43
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DesertScout1;

Quite a different crowd from where you are used to posting, isn't it?
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Old December 9, 2009, 09:34 AM   #44
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Wow!

That is seriously impressive.
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Old December 9, 2009, 09:51 AM   #45
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Nice post. I enjoy watching people wring out the most performance they can from their pistols.

Yes, that it 500 yards, yes it is quite doable, and yes a handgun bullet still has enough energy to penetrate a barrel.
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Old December 9, 2009, 11:17 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavracer
maybe thats the problem getting 1/2 your shots in a 2" group @ 25 yards may be an accurate gun to you, however accurate guns will shoot better than 2" groups at twice that distance.my HK P7 has and will keep all shots on a notebook size target @ 100 yards and I've no doubt they're many handguns that would keep all their shots on a sheet of plywood at 500 yards. your ability to maintain "combat accuracy" with a Glock out to 500 is impressive.But I'm still not impressed with the mechanical accuracy.heck I've seen an old fat man shoot balloons at 200 yards with a SAA.
Personally, I'd say that the groups at 500 yards would extropolate to NO MORE than half of the equivalent at 25 yards, and I think that's VERY optimistic. I don't know a single person with a RIFLE that can maintain perfect mathematical groups as distances exceed about 250 yards. Yes, there are guys and guns that can do it, a lot of them. Most people can not, and with a rifle. Desertscout1 is probably an excellent shot with a handgun. Even so, to expect pure linear growth of the groups at those distances is a pretty unreasonable best case scenario.

Desertscout1, shoot that Glock at 25 and show us the groups. I bet you can do under 2 inches.
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Old December 9, 2009, 12:34 PM   #47
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Quote:
Personally, I'd say that the groups at 500 yards would extropolate to NO MORE than half of the equivalent at 25 yards, and I think that's VERY optimistic.
I'd agree in real conditions (wind being the biggest factor).but extropolate what you want his actual group was not 39" thats only the 7 that hit the board his "group" would have exceded 48".


Quote:
Desertscout1 is probably an excellent shot with a handgun. Even so, to expect pure linear growth of the groups at those distances is a pretty unreasonable best case scenario.
I've no doubt he is an exellent shot.and that he's a exellent shot regardless of what hand gun is in his hand.and no I don't expect his groups to grow linear but the mechanical accuracey of the gun will.I'd bet if you give him my 38super that will shoot under 1 1/2" at 50 yards from a rest he'd do better at 500 than with the glock.
Quote:
Desertscout1, shoot that Glock at 25 and show us the groups. I bet you can do under 2 inches.
most of the tests I've read of stock Glock 40s won't do that from a rest.
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Old December 9, 2009, 12:38 PM   #48
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on a side note Pizza's 40 chart got me to thinkin heres a chart of a 147XTP 9mm.notice 16.7" less midrange trajectory and even thou it starts with less velocity @500 yards it retains nearly 100 fps more.
Quote:
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 1050 -0.5 0 0 360 0
25 1021 24.68 1.15 0.07 340 0.6
50 997 47.78 4.39 0.15 324 1.1
75 975 68.67 9.83 0.23 310 1.89
100 955 87.28 17.56 0.3 298 2.97
125 937 103.5 27.67 0.38 287 4.31
150 920 117.26 40.25 0.46 276 5.9
175 903 128.44 55.4 0.55 266 7.75
200 888 136.97 73.21 0.63 257 9.84
225 873 142.75 93.76 0.71 249 12.18
250 859 145.71 117.14 0.8 241 14.76
275 846 145.74 143.44 0.89 234 17.57
300 833 142.77 172.75 0.98 227 20.62
325 821 136.69 205.16 1.07 220 23.9
350 809 127.44 240.75 1.16 214 27.41
375 797 114.91 279.61 1.25 207 31.15
400 786 99.02 321.84 1.35 202 35.11
425 775 79.66 367.53 1.45 196 39.31
450 765 56.78 416.75 1.54 191 43.72
475 755 30.25 469.61 1.64 186 48.37
500 745 0 526.2 1.74 181 53.23
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Quote:
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My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
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Old December 9, 2009, 12:50 PM   #49
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Quote:
heres a chart of a 147XTP 9mm
Good choice.

My chart was based on the 155gr XTP.

Too be fair, the comparison should probably be either heavy for caliber or light for caliber on both sides, but I get your point.


What did you use for the BC? Where'd you get the MV? Hornady lists 975.
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Old December 9, 2009, 02:05 PM   #50
mavracer
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Quote:
What did you use for the BC?
hornady lists it as .212
Quote:
Where'd you get the MV? Hornady lists 975.
off the top of my head IIRC I've seen some 147s that fast.
Just checked the very first load on handloader.com has it 147xtp @1050fps using 6.2gr of blue dot
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