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Old February 26, 2000, 08:32 AM   #1
DLRaw
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Join Date: February 26, 2000
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So what is the real deal? I've been thinking about buying either the S&W sw9ve or Glock 19. I came off the range yesterday after firing both feeling confused. Both guns fired flawlessly. I actually thought the S&W felt better, but I can't get over the price difference. Anyone have any other feedback?
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Old February 26, 2000, 08:57 AM   #2
Aqil
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I've got both. I don't think people give the Sigma enough credit. It has a better feeling grip and is just as accurate and reliable as my G19. But I could only keep one it would be the Glock as it has a better trigger and is much more durable.
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Old February 26, 2000, 12:38 PM   #3
chaho
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you get what you pay for, have you heard that!
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Old February 26, 2000, 12:46 PM   #4
Jetrecbn
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I have heard of light primer strikes from the SW. Will replacing the striker spring solve this problem? Friend A is interested in buying from friend B LNIB 9mm with 3 19rounders for $400. Want to know if you guys recomend the sale.
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Old February 26, 2000, 02:28 PM   #5
Ben
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DLRaw,
If I were you, I'd rent that exact same pistol a couple of more times and if you still have no problems then buy the used one that you keep renting. (i know, it might not be there when you come back) I'd never take a chance on a Sigma unless I thoroughly tested it first. Put 200-300 rounds through it next time you go to the range, and if you still like it, then buy the used one.

I have no problem with that
Ben

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[This message has been edited by Ben (edited February 26, 2000).]
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Old February 27, 2000, 12:00 AM   #6
Edmund Rowe
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I'd go back and rent both and try to shoot them under higher and higher stress situations and see which one works better for you.

Some ideas:
-Put up a multiple bulls-eye target. (My local indoor range has some that look like the 5-spot on dice) Start from low ready (finger off the trigger!) Have a buddy yell which target to shoot, like "Center!" or "Lower right!" and come up and drill it in a timely manner. If they don't have multi-bulls-eye targets then bring a big cardboard and put up several 3x5 cards spaced apart.

-Move the target farther back. Good way to test accuracy.

-Move the target close. I mean CLOSE. Like 3-4 feet away. Now pop the center target as fast as you can. Maybe even try without looking at the sights to try out the "pointedness" of the pistol.

-Load in the chamber and one in the mag. Shoot to slide lock and change mags. Can you hit the mag release and slide release OK? Note that on Glocks the slide release really isn't a slide release, its a slide stop. Alternate method: do the same but release the slide by pulling it to the rear and releasing.

-With an empty handgun, practice inserting the mag, racking the slide, and shooting from a start signal of some sort.

-Shoot slow, aimed fire with one hand only. Now switch hands. Repeat going for timely speed. (Shooting with your non-dominant hand is a good way to find out all sorts of things about your handgun!)

-If the range will let you, start with an empty chamber and see how well you can rack the slide without using your other hand, such as hooking the rear sight on your belt or holster. Obviously safety is crucial here. Watch out for your feet, thigh, knee and family jewels!!

-Try a "Bill Drill". Go for 6 shots within a confined target area within a set time limit. The Master-class goal is all 6 in an IPSC A-zone in 2 seconds from the holster or something like that. What you're most looking for is a feel for controlling the handgun during/after recoil without sacrificing accuracy. Obviously 2 seconds might be way too fast for us common folk. Try for something that pushes your limits.

Hope that helps.

Edmund
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Old February 27, 2000, 01:00 AM   #7
hoosierboy
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I own both of them and I admit I like my glock better. Th s&w is a little heavier and a little bigger. They field strip almost identical and both have the polymer grip and spring. Most people have beat up on the sigma saying its a piece of junk, jams, weak firing pin, etc... I havent have problems with any off my guns and I even own a taurus pt-111 and berretta tomcat. I don't know what people do to their guns. Anyways if you have the choice get the glock. If its a money thing get the sigma, its not a bad gun, but the glocks are so much more reliable. I think everyone will agree with me there.
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Old February 27, 2000, 01:08 AM   #8
cjb
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Edmund,
What's the deal with racking the slide with your belt or holster? Sounds like a good way to leave the range in a meat wagon! I'm trying to think of a reason that my left arm dosen't work, my chamber is empty, and my slide is forward...... nothing. That would mean you were in pretty deep s@#%! I'm not trying to be a jerk, I would just like to know more!......
CJB
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Old February 27, 2000, 02:28 AM   #9
blades67
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cjb - I will give you a real example of a "I'm trying to think of a reason that my left arm doesn't work, my chamber is empty, and my slide is forward......", only in my example it is my right hand that doesn't work.

In September 1992 I had an industrial accident involving my right hand. All four fingers were cut off at the medial joint (where the fingers and the palm connect). I had a few surgeries to repair as much damage as possible. I now have three of my fingers, (the index was a primary amputation) with limited mobility, and a new perspective.

I was told I would not be able to shoot with my right hand again. I was able to shoot with my right hand after four years! It was two years before I was able to rely on my right hand to retract the slide of my Colt Mustang PocketLite! I was forced to shoot in the desert because the local ranges said I would not be allowed to load my pistols using the rear-sight-hook method. In the three and a half years I used the rear-sight-hook method, I never had an unintentional discharge. It is a dangerous technique, but the evil in the world won't pass you by if you're handicapped. Quite the opposite, you become the favored prey. We must all prepare for the worst. If it comes to pass, you are ready. If it does not, you are still ready and you sleep better because of this.

Too many of us only think about what can happen in the fight, but I have learned to think about what can help me before the fight.

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Old February 27, 2000, 07:59 AM   #10
DLRaw
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Join Date: February 26, 2000
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Thanks for all of your input...keep 'em coming. I just can't believe there is such a big difference in price. As Hoosierboy says, they both seem identical when you take them down...almost part for part. Has anyone recently bought a sigma? I guess I'll go back to the range
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Old February 27, 2000, 06:49 PM   #11
cjb
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blades67,
POINT TAKEN.... thanks for the reply, makes sense now. Forgive my ignorance!
CJB
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Old February 27, 2000, 08:10 PM   #12
Edmund Rowe
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cjb and blades67:

Now how can anything I say compare to what blades67 said??

What I was going to say is:

Many times in shootouts apparently the eyes and therefore the shots are drawn to the opponent's firearm. Examples:
-Agent Edmundo Mireles in the FBI shootout in Miami, 1986. He was hit in the left forearm and managed to fight VERY well shooting a shotgun one handed (a pump gun, mind you!) and then going to his revolver to finish the fight.
-In the same fight, Supervisor McNeill was hit in the hand or wrist or something.
-Read Blackhawk Down and several US soldiers were hit in the hand or arm in the huge street battle in Mogadishu, Somalia.

My point #1 is sometimes feces really does happen and you're still in the fight trying to keep a bad day from getting worse so you gotta manage with one hand. Hopefully some previous practice gives us the better attitude of "I know what to do, I've done this before!" instead of "OH $H!T, WHAT DO I DO NOW???"

I have to admit I didn't think of all this when I got my present carry handgun, but fortunately, my Glocks work very well for either hand and 1-hand manipulation. Anyway, I think DLRaw has an opportunity here to find out some of this stuff in advance before he drops the $$$.

..and let me make myself perfectly clear
V V (Richard Nixon)
..this IS potentially very dangerous so practicing it empty first, then going in
S--L--O--W M--O--T--I--O--N is a good thing. This is a BAD time to find out an internal safety doesn't work as advertised!

Hope that helps.

Edmund
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Old February 27, 2000, 08:34 PM   #13
Hemphill
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I have to tell the truth, I am a Glock fan, but was impressed with the Sigma Value line. My father bought one recently because of the low price and the similarity in operation to the Glock. At first it felt like a rough, unfinished piece of trash. After some shooting and proper lubrication the Sigma settled into being a nice little piece. While I don't think I will buy one anytime soon, I think that they are too often neglected and horribly underrated.
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