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Old November 29, 2009, 09:16 AM   #1
Peptobismol9
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Shooting at Cvs Pharmacy

Its right down the road from my house. I looked out, saw lights and heard sirens. I made some calls, and I initally heard it was seven people killed, but the news told me otherwise. So scary when its this close to home. http://www.wkrg.com/alabama/article/...2009_10-44-pm/
Lucky me, I found a great deal on a Glock in 357. Never been a fan, but I like this. With this time of crime increasing around here, its a must have.

Last edited by Peptobismol9; November 29, 2009 at 09:22 AM.
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Old November 29, 2009, 10:47 AM   #2
JStetson
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Scary. What's disturbing is that so many who choose to take their lives do it in public places.
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Old November 29, 2009, 05:19 PM   #3
Xyas
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Situations concerning a pharmacy always worry me because I am soon to be a pharmacist and I always wonder about people coming in to steal drugs at gunpoint. I feel it's a very scary situation because if they're coming in to steal drugs chances are they're on the drugs themselves which makes things a whole lot dangerous for everyone involved.
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Old November 29, 2009, 06:14 PM   #4
Glenn Dee
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My Advice is... If someone points a gun at you and says... "Give me the drugs" give him the drugs... heck... it's not even your drugs... and maybe he'll go somewhere quiet and OD. Drugs are property.. you cant use deadly physical force to protect property.
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Old November 29, 2009, 06:52 PM   #5
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He was not robbing the place he was trying to kill his wife. When he missed he decided to kill himself instead. It has been a tough holiday weekend for shootings.
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Old November 29, 2009, 09:39 PM   #6
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
My Advice is... If someone points a gun at you and says... "Give me the drugs" give him the drugs... heck... it's not even your drugs... and maybe he'll go somewhere quiet and OD. Drugs are property.. you cant use deadly physical force to protect property.
If somebody points a gun at you in the commission of a robbery, you most certainly can use deadly force to protect yourself (caveats for those states that say you have to retreat, etc.). Once your life has been threatened by a person with apparent intent, opportunity, and ability, ancillary issues such as the person wanting drugs or money are really inconsequential by comparison.

As noted, this wasn't a robbery. However, the same rules for self defense would still apply as the same lethal threat is present.
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Old December 6, 2009, 04:08 PM   #7
Glenn Dee
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Yes Spy... you CAN shoot someone who threatens you with deadly physical force.. Do you Have to shoot them?... or CAN you shoot them?... can you draw down on someone who has you covered? If all they want is the drugs... I'd hand em over... If things went any further I may take a chance on drawing.

I'm sorry I ask your indugence ... I'm making statements based on my own experiences.
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Old December 6, 2009, 05:35 PM   #8
Jon-m
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I work in a pharmacy, so I do think about these kind of situations from time to time ( I mostly worry about or female techs getting robbed while leaving work after dark). Honestly, if some crack head comes in with a gun and demands some oxi's not only would I point him to them, I'd probably help him bag it up and take it to the car
Hell they're just drugs, if they want 'em that bad they can have 'em. wheres the logic in losing your life over some pills?
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Old December 6, 2009, 09:53 PM   #9
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
Yes Spy... you CAN shoot someone who threatens you with deadly physical force.. Do you Have to shoot them?... or CAN you shoot them?... can you draw down on someone who has you covered? If all they want is the drugs... I'd hand em over... If things went any further I may take a chance on drawing.

I'm sorry I ask your indugence ... I'm making statements based on my own experiences.
Interesting given you stated the exact opposite in your previous post...

Quote:
If someone points a gun at you and says... "Give me the drugs" .... Drugs are property.. you cant use deadly physical force to protect property.
So at that point, it isn't property that you are protecting and even if you are protecting property, you are still justified in the use of force or lethal force because your life has been threatened by a person with apparent intent, ability, and opportunity.

Do you have to shoot them? "Can" does not mean "have to," but you knew that.

You CAN defend your life or those of others as you see fit within the parameters of the law (if you wish to be legal). I see nothing wrong with compliance so long as compliance is to your benefit, especially when you may not have any other viable/realistic choices. For example, drawing on a drawn gun is often considered a losing proposition as the person with the drawn gun like point and pull quicker than you can draw point and pull. However, in some 13% of aggravated robberies, the robbers hurt victims who do comply (FBI data from around 2000).

You may opt to bolt, thereby removing yourself from the proximity of the threat. As a buddy of mine says, "the best defense is to not be there" where "there" is the location of the threat. One of the funniest sequences of ATM photos I ever saw was of a guy at a walk-up ATM. As the pics progressed, he is approached by two guys with a gun. Apparently from about 5 feet behind him, they made their intentions known. The image is of the guy just turning to face them. The next image is of the two would-be robbers both looking stage left, gun out, and perplexed as the intended victim bolted and got away quite successfully. The next images were of the bad guys trying to get cash from the machine as the card was still in the machine.

You may opt to use force, but not opt not to use lethal force.

So it is your call based on the situation at hand.
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Old December 7, 2009, 06:07 AM   #10
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I'm sorry Spy.
I think you may have misunderstood me. My position is this. There may be a point where you can legally shoot at someone, but it may be a bad idea. In NY state you can use deadly physical force to prevent or terminate an armed robbery. Just because you can do something dont make it a good idea. If the armed robber has the drop on me... I'd probably give him what he asked for hoping it will end, before I try to draw under the gun. Also I mentioned that I base my OPINION on my own past experiences.

Most people dont want to use deadly physical force. Well... let me rephrase that. I dont want to use deadly phyical force. Life would be pretty scary if everyone used deadly force every time they felt justified. I live in Florida... where we probably have the most liberal deadly force laws around. Thats a good thing. Despite the rheuminations of the gun control crowd. Blood isnt running in the streets, and pretty much nothing has changed. I see this as evidence that most people use restraint, and common sense when it comes to deadly force.

Just because you can use deadly force doesnt mean that you have to use it. It's a personal call. I would think that most people would make this decision based on their personal experiences, and their own common sense. My personal experience is that most robbers only want what they want, and will usually be happy with that. My own common sense is that I know I'm not capable of out-drawing someone pointing a gun at me. Again thats just me... someone else my see it differently.
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Old December 7, 2009, 06:16 AM   #11
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OK now I see the misunderstanding. I say the drugs are property.. your right if they aare taken during an armed robbery you would be justified in using deadly force to terminate the robbery... I used the property example to place value on the drugs. The reason you can use DPF (Deadly physical force) to terminate an armed robbery is because robbery by definition requires that the perpetrator place you in fear of death or serious physical injury. You are correct, and it was a poor way of assigning value to the drugs.

OK allow me to try and correct myself. The drugs are property. your life is irreplaceable. If by turning over the property ( drugs) you deminish the threat to your life... I'd turn over the drugs. I hope this better explains my position, Please me... sometimes I'm too flippant... and I have a dark sense of humor.

Glenn D.
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Old December 7, 2009, 07:43 PM   #12
Mannlicher
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according to the news report, only dead person was the shooter. Suicide.

Not a lot your packing a gun would have helped there.
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Old December 7, 2009, 10:27 PM   #13
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to PEPTOBISMOL

I'm sorry that you had to experience that so close to your home. The man that died was my uncle. The woman (my poor excuse of an aunt) was his estranged wife who was having an affair with another woman, the woman had convinced her to join a cult and clean out my uncles bank account. My aunt was an evil person. My uncle left a note and had already planned to kill himself however it did not go the way he planned. He was never going to kill my aunt. I wish things had not happened the way they did however my uncle was a good man, I guess he just snapped. Prior to this he never hurt anyone or did anything like this. I blame my aunt. I hope oneday she burns for all eternity
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Old December 8, 2009, 12:32 AM   #14
CorpITGuy
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Sorry for your loss.
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Old December 8, 2009, 01:30 AM   #15
NavyLT
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In most states it is lawful to use deadly force to stop a felony in progress, and it is a felony to steal drugs from a pharmacy.
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Old December 8, 2009, 05:31 AM   #16
Glenn Dee
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Maybe a violent felony.
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Old December 8, 2009, 06:07 AM   #17
ClayInTx
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HUH?!

What does the OP situation have to do with self defense?

What does the OP situation have to do with protecting property?

What does the OP situation specifically have to do with pharmacies?

When and how was the OP, himself, in danger?

I’m not against carrying; I carry, but I’m certainly at a loss to parse the reasoning here, based upon the OP, and not certain of the reason even for the OP.
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Old December 8, 2009, 08:44 AM   #18
threegun
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Quote:
My personal experience is that most robbers only want what they want, and will usually be happy with that.
According to the statistics you are correct. Still doesn't make the 13 or so percent who comply and still get hurt feel any better.

The second to last thing I want to do is hurt anyone. The last thing I want is to be hurt by someone. So in an armed robbery if the odds favor shooting I'm shooting....if they favor compliance then thats what I do.

The point is compliance doesn't always equal safety. The stakes are life and death. If you choose to rob at gunpoint don't get upset if the victim believes you are going to kill them and kills you.

As for common sense.......our use or non use of common sense still doesn't guarantee that we won't be in that 13 percent who comply and still get injured.

That said ending the threat on my terms IMO is far better than hoping for mercy from my assailant.
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