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Old November 22, 2009, 04:33 AM   #1
Firepower!
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SAIGA-12: Questions, product info, pictures and experience sharing thread.

Hello
I have recently purchased a Saiga 12. Its still on its way to get to me, but I have already started to think about ways to make it more effective. What tactical kits are available out there for it?

What sort of ammo can I run through it with worrying about too much stress on the gun?

What slugs yield best results when fired from it?

What do you use your Saigas for: hunting, sport, HD, etc?

What are your reviews, analysis and ratings of this firearm?

Please post pictures of your Saiga 12.

Thanks

PS this is my second Saiga. The last one I had gifted to my brother without firing a single shot.
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Old November 22, 2009, 03:38 PM   #2
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As far as "tactical kits," it's pretty easy to convert a S12 to a more traditional AK style stock and pistol grip. Tromix has a good modified G2 trigger group for that- you can use a standard AK FCG, but you have to take a little bit off the right side of of the shaft to clear the bolt hold open.

As far as ammo selection, so long as you have the gas plug set to the proper setting, it should fire even stout loads all day long. Fire slugs on setting 2, though, and you're likely to beat the tar out of your rear trunnion. A Gunfixer gas plug gives you a bit more leeway in your gas settings- I've thought about picking one up eventually. I would recommend the Tromix bolt handle- it doesn't look like much, but you'd be surprised as to how much it helps you get a good grip on the thing.

Haven't tried slugs out of mine, but anything rifled should work fine.

I've shot clays with mine, but it isn't ideal- the short sight radius, difficulty of getting a good cheek weld, and high over bore aiming plane all take their toll. For hunting and self defense I imagine it would work great.

I don't know if I still have a photo of mine up on the net; I need to take another one anyway. It's a fun gun.
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Old November 22, 2009, 03:59 PM   #3
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Mine cycles everything from wimpy bargain-shot to 1.25oz slugs on the "1" gas setting. Some don't. Try some of everything.

As slugs go, mine likes the Brenneke loads and pretty much everything made by Federal, although it shoots fine with the Remington slugs and even roundballs.

As for tactical stuff, I don't know. I've been leaning the other direction and have been trying to find a wood stock for mine.

If you use any of the US-made high-capacity mags, you may want to stick to 2.75" shells. I broke the front locking tab off of a few early AGP 10-rounders running heavy 3" loads through them. They have improved the mags since then, but that's still a heck of a lot of force on a small amount of plastic. The loaded mags are heavy, the recoil is heavy, things can break. I use Russian 5-round mags for the most brutal 3" stuff now.

Quote:
What sort of ammo can I run through it with worrying about too much stress on the gun?
You don't put stress on the Saiga 12, the Saiga 12 puts stress on you.

Anthing that fits in the mag and doesn't dislocate your shoulder is fine.
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Old November 22, 2009, 04:34 PM   #4
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I tried finding some high cap magz online but they dont ship out here so I will try to get some locally made, if possible. Mine will probably reach tomorrow and I will post some pics. I need to stop buying since I have gone crazy with these purchases in past month.

I want tactical rails because I want to put a flash light on mine for night, and front grip to hold the beast down while firing super loads. I am gonna look for some heavy loads for this baby as well.

But for now I just need few extra magz.
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Old November 22, 2009, 04:51 PM   #5
Webleymkv
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As far as a conversion to more standard AK configuration, the Saiga 12 should be able to use standard AK stocks, pistol grips, and Fire Control Groups (trigger, hammer, and disconnector). The conversion is fairly easy to do with little more than a drill press, the necessary parts, and a dremel tool and there are a number of online turorials detailing exactly how to do it. A Saiga conversion may be much simpler for you as, being outside the U.S., you're not subject to 922r (a law requiring a certain number of U.S. made parts on a converted Saiga) but check your local laws as I'm not familiar with the laws of your country.

There have been a few companies that have converted Saigas to full-auto but I'm not sure how difficult that is (I didn't really investigate because that would be illegal for civillians in the U.S. anyway).

As far as magazines go, I belive that 8-round magazines are made for the Saiga 12 and Saiga 20 in Russia (they are not imported to the U.S. so we are limited to U.S. made aftermarket mags). If you can't get the U.S. made mags, you might check on availability of Russian made ones.

Really, you may have an interesting opportunity as if your local laws permit, you might be able to add all sorts of goodies that are prohibited to most of us by U.S. law.
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Old November 22, 2009, 05:06 PM   #6
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Mine's an older import that came into the US as an LEO only gun with a factory folding stock. A local Class II shop converted it to an SBS. The only mods I've doen to it were to add a Poly Choke, rifle sights, a forearm with a single rail and a recoil buffer. I actually got lucky enough to get 4 of the Russian 8 round mags back in the day and they will feed whatever you put in them. I have a couple of the APG mags also along with one of the 20 round drums

Mine has ate everything I've fed it from bargin Wal-mart #8 shot to 1 oz Federal slugs. I have always wanted to put an optic on it but, until recently, there were only a couple options. I tried the side mount option but the recoil kept kicking the scope loose so I gave up. I may revisit that after I finish a couple other projects.

I would think that being in Pakistan, you would have better access to some of the Soviet stuff so if you can score some of their 8 rounders, you'll be set. As others have pointed out, the loaded mags are heavy and it's difficult to carry spares.
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Old November 22, 2009, 05:28 PM   #7
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Personally, I'd rather have 8 round mags than the larger 10 and 12 round mags or the 20-round drums. The examples I'v examined with 10 and 12 round mags inserted were rather unweildly due to the excessive length of the mag and I doubt that the 20-round drum would be much better. An 8 round box mag seems like it would be just right.
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Old November 23, 2009, 01:58 AM   #8
Firepower!
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I agree that 8 shot mag length is just about right. Any mag with higher cap should be in drum shape to avoid a wierd look. I have seen (on net) some 12 round mags and they seem strange with the gun.
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Old November 23, 2009, 06:41 AM   #9
jaymce
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Try the Saiga12 boards. There is a ton of info on Saigas there.

There are pics of mine here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...ght=fp6&page=2

There are several choices for adding rails depends on weather you want a tri-quad rail like an AR or want something more modular like the Fuglystick I chose.

Once broken in the Saiga should run any ammo you can get your hands on.

If they are available then stick with the 8 rounders. From your past posts durability would be wise. The Russian mags have a steel insert in the mag that reinforces the lip that engages the receiver making them nearly indistructable.

The only problem you might run into is with importation of parts. Many parts suppliers will be hesitant to ship over seas.

Shoot this one and do not give it away! Once you have shot it you will be hooked.
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Old November 23, 2009, 10:00 AM   #10
Firepower!
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thanks,
I would try to gather some more 8 rounders and stick with them.

Anyone used HP slug in these?
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Old November 23, 2009, 07:06 PM   #11
jaymce
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What part of "run any ammo" did you not understand?



Just joking.

Once broken in (1-200 rounds) most Saigas will eat anything you can load in the mag.

I have used cheap bird shot (the new unconverted gun does not like it but I have less than 50 rounds shot through it so far), my converted saiga will shoot the bird shot and hollow point, regular, rifled, 00 buck shot, or any other load you can think of or I have put in it.

It loves slugs and higher power type loads.
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Old November 24, 2009, 12:36 AM   #12
Firepower!
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Well I understand that it will shoot anything 12guage, but my query was regarding the performance of various loads, specifically asking which perfoms the best out of Saiga 12.

Since you mentioned the brake-in period (200 rounds), should one not use specific loads until the gun is broken in?
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Old November 24, 2009, 10:40 AM   #13
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You can shoot anything in the break-in period, but from what I've read over at Saiga 12 forum, it's best to use heavier high brass loads for that. Some guys use slugs. The idea is to get the parts to wear in to one another, and that will happen faster with heavier loads than with lighter target loads (like sporting clay loads with birdshot).
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Old November 24, 2009, 03:12 PM   #14
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John wants one.
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Old November 24, 2009, 05:44 PM   #15
SAIGAFISH
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make it what you want

DINZAG ARMS ,CARROLINA SHOOTERS SUPPLY,AND
MISSISSIPPI AUTO ARMS,get your new trigger guard from
saiga tek.convert it and make it what you want all the
parts are out there. make it easy on your self and use saiga
parts not ak parts it will save you lots of grinding and drilling
cheap buckshot,and riffled slugs anything 3'' or less.
the other poster said something about wood furniture
go to DINZAG ARMS,GREAT GUY small privite bussiness.
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Old November 24, 2009, 06:33 PM   #16
jaymce
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As far a brake in as stated most like to use slugs or heavy loads to get the gun broken in. Once there you can run just about any load that will allow the gun to cycle which is usually about anything.

Quote:
John wants one
John should get one. Then John will look like most other Saiga owners
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Old November 26, 2009, 09:00 AM   #17
Firepower!
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The more I read about this weapon the more I am begining to like it. My piece is still not here as there are some local holidays. I am expecting the delivery right around the first week of December. With my Saiga I have purchased two more things that I will post in their own threads once they arrive (a long barrel Luger and Sa. 26).

Back on Saiga, I have purchased about 300 slugs today for the break in. I will fire them away the same day I get the gun barring any unforeseen circumstances.
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Old November 26, 2009, 08:12 PM   #18
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I'll need to get some of my own pictures posted, all I have is the stock one from where I purchased. I went the expensive route and picked up a converted one (by Rising Sun Tactical)...I was deployed and didn't want to get burned if some legislation drove up prices and dried up sources. Anyways, I took it out to the range last week and was extremely pleased...I need to try some different slugs for accuracy, but it ate everything. I was using AGP 10rd mags which fed well with no issues. I have a MD20 drum, I like it except for all the rattles bad when loaded.

I'm planning to pick up another stock Saiga and mod my own now that I'll have a little time.

The AK platform is perfect for a shotgun



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Old November 26, 2009, 09:36 PM   #19
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Saiga 12 is a good choice of gun.

Is reliable and you can treat it very hard, and it will still work perfect.
This gun is a dog!


I wanted a Saiga 12, but i choose the Molot Verp 12, that is basically the same, but it has some things more than Saiga. Also, it cost about the same to the Tactical version of Saiga i wanted.


Saiga will serve you well in hunting, home defense or even war.
Just get many magazines!

Here you can find general data about the guns:
Saiga 12
Vepr 12

To find some good photos, just google for Сайга 12 for Saiga and Вепрь 12 for Vepr 12. Those are the Russian writings of the guns.

Here is a nice picture i found around the net:
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Old November 28, 2009, 02:00 PM   #20
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Can you get a field barrel for them?

You could own the skeet field if they were available! Haha.
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Old November 28, 2009, 04:06 PM   #21
Piper Cub
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I just did a Tapco stock and foregrip. No surgery needed. Put the bucks into my 20 round drum and three 12 round mags. It function best with hi-brass mag loads. Mine had to go back for repairs and get the 3 ports drilled out.
I classify mine as a toy gun.
Go to http://www.forum.saiga-12.com/
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