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Old November 25, 2009, 10:08 AM   #26
AJG
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# on one side?

Okay so a question on the "# on one side rule".
Whatever the state of number used, does it only apply to that one side or is it a mirror image for the other side too?
Example, if its a 4 point on one side rule, does that mean it needs to be at least a 8 pointer? Or as long as its at least 4 on one side then it can be 3, 2, or 1 on the other?

thanks
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Old November 25, 2009, 04:29 PM   #27
elkman06
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Quote:
does that mean it needs to be at least a 8 pointer?
YES
elkman06

OKay, I read it a little better. You might get away w/ a 4x3..again might be up to the individual wardens' interpretation.
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Old November 25, 2009, 05:52 PM   #28
FALPhil
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In the QDM counties in Georgia, it is only for one side.
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Old November 26, 2009, 12:28 AM   #29
HiBC
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Colorado has a 4 pt rule on elk in some areas,which,to me makes sense.
The Game Management Units are prtty much about the range of a particular herd,and are a tool to manage that herd.

The DOW asked for input many years ago,and I participated.

They must consider,there are locals who want a low $ hunt for the freezer.

There are outfitters and sporting goods stores and hotels and restauants concerned about their way of life(Big game hunting revenue in Colo is greater than ski revenue)

There is the "once in a lifetime elk hunter" who wants a big bull,but more,he wants a wild country experience,and seeing 300 other hunters a day isn't it
Or a dad and a 16 year old daughter or son want a safe,local trip that they can do.

Then,the herds must be managed for health.The range and forage must be managed.

Add to that,ranchers and grazing leases and moving cattle herds in the fall.

The DOW has a balance to find.

In Colo,they manage different GMUs with different priorities,and its not bad.

There are local,easy,hunts,but lower your exectations.There are remote big bull hunts,get your wallet out.Its about as fair as it can be,IMO
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Old November 26, 2009, 12:42 AM   #30
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In Utah the number of points is only for one side, the other can be more or less. I believe Idaho is the same, nott sure about Wyoming.
For instance in a "Spike Only" elk unit you can shoot a bull with atleast one side a spike, the other can be no antler, or a six point, as long as one side meets the criteria you're good.
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Old November 26, 2009, 01:10 AM   #31
hogdogs
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Will read the entire thread to see if I am duplicating another's opinion...

I am 100% against anything but a "nubbin" or 4 inch spike rule to determine sex...

The 4 point or better rule is nuttin' more than a "feel good" sort of rule.

A 10 year old 180 pounder could have 3 on each side and be a "brood buck" but he needs removed from the gene pool. A 4X4 2.5 year old is not yet a brrod buck but should be let walk a few years to see if he ain't a 6X6 in waiting...
If a state wants to restrict bucks, they need to train hunters to cull the junk as well as hunt the bruisers.

Antler restrictions are not really near as good as teaching to closely judge age while lookin' at junk or trophy wood. The season needs to plan for both the trophy hunter as well as the meat gatherer.
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Old November 26, 2009, 06:46 AM   #32
freedom475
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Most of use love to harvest trophy deer...especially out west where the Mulies can reach the statis of Montster Buck....But

This Regulation poses a HUGE THREAT to our trophy deer!! A three point buck has 3 points in his genes and will never be a 4 point ....deer do not grow more tines as they mature. There are a few exceptions but this is almost always the case.!! They grow mass, size and length, but do not add tines after 3 1/2. and usally their 2nd set of antlers is what their tine count will always be.

This is important to prevent, remove and stop this regulation... Sure the little 1 1/2year old spikes and 2points will mature as there first set of antlers is not the end of their story...but at 2 1/2-3 1/2 you will know if they have potental or not. All managed hunting facilities know that this is the time to remove the dinks..3 and 4 point bucks to allow the 5's to do the breeding. Ever heard the term "Management Buck"?
If you are after meat you need to be shooting dry does anyway and not these bambi 1 1/2 year old bucks...the does will be way bigger anyway.

Outdoor life did a research article on this years ago with deer who were followed and their sheds collected and cataloged...the results Once a Dink Buck Always a Dink Buck!!)

The 4point regs kills off all/most of the 2 1/2 year old 4 points (that are not even close to mature yet) and lets all the bad "Dink" Gened 3 points and two points live on to do the breeding..

This is a very sure way to remove the trophy from the woods.
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Old November 26, 2009, 10:28 AM   #33
Art Eatman
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Seems to me that the health of the herd, the health of the species is more important than the satisfaction of the hunter--for all that I've always been an avid hunter.

A lot of the impetus for shooting bucks and not shooting does is a holdover from those years when the deer herds had declined in dramatic fashion all over the country. Shooting a doe was spending capital; shooting a buck was spending the interest returned from the capital. Hunters as a group created the game laws and the resurgence of deer populations is history.

There is a natural weeding-out process among bucks which eventually leads to the best genetics for survival being passed along in breeding. Shooting young bucks can cut off some of the better bloodlines from full maturity. That's part of the reasoning for restrictions against shooting the younger bucks.

Older, bigger-horned deer have already passed their genes into the pool, and taking them as a hunter's satisfaction for a bragging trophy doesn't hurt the overal health of the herd.

Given the population dynamics of deer, does must be shot for the good of the habitat. Else, the carrying capacity of the land is exceeded and the average size of all deer becomes smaller.

As far as today's regulations? Today's society is heavily urbanized, and the average hunter may not be conversant with all the various aspects of wildlife population dynamics. The agency people must accommodate both the hunters' capabilities and desires, and the biological realities--and those can easily be in opposition.
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Old November 26, 2009, 11:00 AM   #34
ZeroJunk
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Quote:
Sure the little 1 1/2year old spikes and 2points will mature as there first set of antlers is not the end of their story...but at 2 1/2-3 1/2 you will know if they have potental or not

I think that is the problem in this area. I saw four bucks yesterday afternoon. One spike, one little six, one little eight, and a pretty good deer that was too smart to let me get a real good look at him. The six and eight were almost certainly 1 1/2 years old. At that point you dont' know what they might be in another year or two. A lot of, if not most, hunters would have shot these little bucks. The vast majority of bucks are killed before they are two years old.

Some of the guys I used to hunt with when asked not to kill young bucks said, by god if it had hair on it they were going to shoot it. I talked to one of the guys about 10 years later and asked him how the hunting was. He said you couldn't find a good buck over there because everybody was shooting them before they got grown. LOL
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Old November 26, 2009, 01:55 PM   #35
dewcrew8
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will its all about size !!! if that 2-4 pointer is bigger then that ten pointer, I'll take him. does are running crazy here and theres not rack rule here.
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Old November 27, 2009, 12:12 PM   #36
Flapjack23
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I'd love it here in Michigan. Too many hunters (IMO) kill small bucks to "put meat on the table", "because the next guy will shoot it, so I should", "insert excuse here". If we want to see bigger bucks (I do and this is one of the reasons for my post), we need to stop killing them before they grow up. A doe will put meat on the table just as well as a spike or forkhorn. Add a OBR (off topic a little) and I think MI would become a premier hunting state. An old school mentality exists in this state. Sound scientific game management would improve hunting IMO. I have personally shot only 1 buck in the last 5 or so years and will harvest a doe (or does) if I don't get a 8 or better.

Andy

PS. I support an adequate doe harvest as well. Sorry for off topic comments.
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Old November 28, 2009, 09:29 AM   #37
hogdogs
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Flap, The problem with the fact that does fill a freezer is that most states have such a limited doe season. If they had an allowance for more doe days, I would gladly utilize them.
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