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Old November 19, 2009, 12:40 AM   #1
akfedor7
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Any other org besides NRA?

Just wondering if there are any other firearms rights groups besides the NRA. I respect the NRA, as it seems they are the only gun group I have heard of in the media. But I never got a good vibe from them as far as their efforts towards gun rights. They seem to be only reactive... you only hear them raise a little ruckus when a new gun law is proposed, as if they are only reactionary. I'd rather give my money to a group that does other things besides just play the political game. A group that would do things like organize marches, purchase billboards for progun ads, and constantly and actively seek to not only preserve gun rights, but also expand them.

Does any such group exist?
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Old November 19, 2009, 04:58 AM   #2
Bud Helms
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You obviously know little about the NRA. I'd suggest going to their site and reading.

There is no one pro-Second Amendment organization that will meet every citizen's idea of the perfect advocacy group, but just to let you know, a search engine will provide the links to greatly increase your knowledge on this subject. Search for JPFO - Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, GOA - Gun Owners of America, and others.

Go here: National Gun Rights Organizations.
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Old November 19, 2009, 09:58 AM   #3
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There are many. I am a life member of the NRA. I believe it is important that its membership numbers stay large.

When I have spare money to donate toward RKBA, I give to the Second Amendment Foundation. All contribution to SAF are tax deductable. SAF does not lobby, it puts it efforts into debunking the anti-rights organizations and funding important court battles.
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Old November 19, 2009, 10:01 AM   #4
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Also look within your state. There are many very good state organizations that work at a more local level. Many are affiliated with the NRA and/or other national groups.
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Old November 19, 2009, 10:11 AM   #5
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Bud pretty much nailed it, there are probably more. Maybe you could add the Pink Pistols to the list, if you are of that persuasion (look it up).

Some folks like the GOA better than the NRA. Had I been an active member of the NRA prior to 1990, I may also fall into that group. However, I'm a big fan of the NRA. I think they are the most effective gun rights advocacy group by far. I know what their positions were in the 1980's, and I fully understand why they had to take a "compromise" approach back then. This was a mistake the NRA made (but a justifiable mistake) and I firmly believe that they will not make that mistake again.

So, I'm quite proud to call myself a member of the NRA, and hope to become a life member when I get the discretionary funds to plop down on this.
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Old November 19, 2009, 11:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
You obviously know little about the NRA.
Correct. The NRA is the group that does the heavy lifting.

Quote:
When I have spare money to donate toward RKBA, I give to the Second Amendment Foundation.
Correct. The SAF does good work, too.

Quote:
Also look within your state. There are many very good state organizations that work at a more local level.
Also correct.

Those are the three points I was going to make.

There are other national groups, but I can't find any evidence of any accomplishments by them. Some seem to exist only to collect dues and ridicule the NRA. The list of NRA accomplishments is extensive, and you can find them easily by doing a search on this site.
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Old November 19, 2009, 12:58 PM   #7
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The NRA is not perfect, and not all people who support the RTKBA agree with its approach. I would prefer a little less compromise, but I am willing to listen to what they have to say about why they may have made a compromise. Politics is not a one sided game where you can win every time. Sometimes all you can do is limit the extent of your losses.

I think your best bet is to get involved with a statewide RTKBA group and work to fix whatever issues there are in your state or community. There are a lot more state and local RTKBA obominations than there are federal. They need to be dismantled too.
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Old November 19, 2009, 02:02 PM   #8
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I didn't spend a lot of time looking around that link (now fixed) I posted in my last post, but I did notice they include a state-by-state list of pro-gun organizations.
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Old November 19, 2009, 06:43 PM   #9
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Thanks for the info guys. I just wondered which groups might be more proactive. And I could have a completely wrong assessment of them based on what little media coverage they get.

Which, if any, gun laws are the NRA challenging right now?
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Old November 19, 2009, 09:01 PM   #10
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It seems that the only media coverage the NRA gets is negative. The liberal media doesn't show all of the good things the NRA does like training the law enforcement community and the public as well as gun safety for kids. The NRA is by far the best gun organization out there!! A true friend to law abiding citizens!!!
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Old November 20, 2009, 01:24 AM   #11
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Some things to consider --

[1] The NRA is the most effective RKBA organization. They have the largest membership of any of them, and they do the best that they can with that membership base. Politics is strictly a numbers game. If the NRA had more members, it could be that much more effective. And those folks who complain about the NRA's so called failures need to tell us who did, or could have, actually accomplished more.

[2] Facts of political life -- politicians don't listen to individual voters and they don't listen to or care much about reason. They care about numbers. One hundred phone calls or letters in support of or against something are better than 10. Ten thousand would be a lot better yet. It doesn't matter what the caller or writer says is the reason to support or oppose the thing. All that matters is the number on each side of the question.

[3] An NRA with 4 million members gets attention. An NRA with 5 million will get more, and an NRA with 10 million members could get some real serious attention. As annoying as the NRA can be, it's in our interests to see it grow and prosper.

[4] Politicians aren't swayed by fine arguments, logical demonstrations or even facts. They are swayed by how many voters (and potential voters and contributors) line up on each side of the question. They are influenced by political and economic power.

[5] Given all that, the NRA does what it reasonably can do in the political climate in which it operates. It can not perform magic. Under the right circumstances, it can, and has, effectively moved affirmative pro-RKBA legislation (like the law protecting gun makers from frivolous law suits and the National Park carry legislation). And sometimes it can block legislation we don't like. But sometimes the political deck is so stacked against our interests, the best we can reasonably expect the NRA to be able to do is help make the best of a bad situation.

[6] It's fine to talk about "no compromise." But remember that he who insists on all or nothing gets nothing. If the votes aren't there they aren't there.

[7] The NRA is at the forefront of shooter education and safety training. Their program for certifying instructors in a variety of disciplines helps make competent training more readily available to the public. And their "Refuse to be a Victim" program is excellent.
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Old November 20, 2009, 05:45 AM   #12
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Support all of the pro gun rights organizations that you can. I am a member of the NRA and the GOA.

Support (or patronize) pro-gun businesses as much as possible as well.
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Old November 20, 2009, 11:07 AM   #13
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I joined GOA and will join JPFO once I get my GOA lifetime payed off. I send most of my financial contributions to BFA, my state organization. I am lucky in that BFA also addresses key national issues.
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Old November 20, 2009, 11:13 AM   #14
johnwilliamson062
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I joined GOA and will join JPFO once I get my GOA lifetime payed off. GOA is a little overboard sometimes, but they are not big on compromise. I send most of my financial contributions to BFA, my state organization. I am lucky in that BFA also addresses key national issues.
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Old November 20, 2009, 02:04 PM   #15
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
I respect the NRA, as it seems they are the only gun group I have heard of in the media. But I never got a good vibe from them as far as their efforts towards gun rights. They seem to be only reactive...
Frankly, if the NRA never did anything but help build ranges and teach gun safety and education, they would still be one of the absolute best investments you can make with your money. Firearms rights depend on people having an interest in protecting them; and people who don't shoot or go to the range (or even have the chance to) aren't likely to develop that interest,

Quote:
I'd rather give my money to a group that does other things besides just play the political game. A group that would do things like organize marches, purchase billboards for progun ads, and constantly and actively seek to not only preserve gun rights, but also expand them.
I don't think you are giving the NRA enough credit for what they do. Having said that, I think whoever said "Think globally, act locally" was dead on. If al 50 states had strong state-level RKBA groups, anti-gun politicians would have a difficult time even making it to the federal level.

You should definitely seek out and support your state gun rights group.

You should also keep in mind that the NRA is actually several different organizations...

The NRA (the one you pay $30 a month to join and get magazines from) is actually only concerned with shooting safety and education. They are limited by both their charter and federal law as to how much politics they can get involved in.

The NRA-ILA lobbies Congress to pass new laws or fight anti-gun laws that have been proposed. They do the testifying in Congress, help provide studies in support of legislative goals, etc. They are one of the tools the NRA uses to protect the interests of the Second Amendment in Congress.

The NRA-PVF is the other tool. This group helps pro-RKBA politicians get elected at every level of government by donating money and time.

The NRA Civil Defense Fund supports pro-2A litigation and helps gun owners with legal costs in these cases.

Finally, the NRA Foundation provides a tax-deductible way to support the Second Amendment and shooting, though like the NRA, it is limited by law in how much political activism it can support. But I tell you what, even if all it did was invest in hedge funds, you can bet that any organization with large amounts of liquid capital can have an effect on the people who want to borrow that money

Some other great organizations have already been mentioned as well; but I wanted to take a moment to +1 the recommendation of SAF. They do absolutely great litigation work. If the NRA is the 3,000,000 strong Army of RKBA litigation, then SAF is SOCOM
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Old November 20, 2009, 08:12 PM   #16
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The NRA does more for the RKBA than any individual, or any other group, and it's in all gunowners best interests to advocate joining and working together. All gunowners benefit from the work done by the NRA, whether, or not, you are a member. For example - we all remember that in 1987 only 10 states recognized the right to carry for self-protection. Today, due to the NRA, 40 states do.

Let's not forget what they've done for Preemption Laws, Castle Doctrine, Emergency Powers Laws, protecting gun owners and dealers privacy rights with the Tiahrt Amendment, "The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act”, and the Heller decision, as well as fighting against the old and new AW bans, National Park firearms bans, UN Gun Control, Gun Show bans and reforming the abuses of the BATFE.

It's easy for the the anti-RKBA media, democrats and liberals to denigrate and distort the NRA organization and membership. That way they don't have to recognize or validate the historical, legal and constitutional truths of the RKBA.

You have to decide whose side you are on. Join and support the NRA and encourage every one you care about to join too.

Get and stay informed with The First Freedom NRA monthly magazine (the most consistent in depth reporting on RKBA issues, laws and politics) and the NRA-ILA legislative and political RKBA e-mail alerts. Subscribe at http://www.nraila.org/
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Old November 20, 2009, 08:23 PM   #17
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I'd rather give my money to a group that does other things besides just play the political game.
The NRA does a lot besides "just play the political game" and they desperately need people to join, but more importantly to volunteer their time.
Quote:
Which, if any, gun laws are the NRA challenging right now?
Thought you weren't that interested in "the political game"...

At the moment the NRA is involved in several legal challenges that are attempting to use the recent Supreme Court Heller ruling to overturn state and municipal gun control laws.

Speaking of which, they were heavily involved in the Heller case which you may have heard of.

For more information, you can look here:
http://www.nraila.org/

If you don't like the NRA then there are numerous other pro-gun activist organizations out there. Since you sound like you want to get involved with grassroots type activities I recommend that you start with your own state firearm organization. http://www.msrpa.org/ Join, and for this next year make it your goal to volunteer at least an hour of your time and to sign up at least 5 new members.
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Old November 20, 2009, 11:19 PM   #18
akfedor7
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Thanks guys for the info. Sounds like the local groups will be more my things. Will definitely look into them, as I was not even aware they existed before.
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Old November 21, 2009, 12:41 AM   #19
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Don't forget that the one of the great strengths of the NRA is their sheer size. It seems probable to me that there are congressman and senators who have refrained from introducing anti-gun rights bills, or signing on to ones that have been introduced, after looking at the size of the NRA's membership roles. 1994 is still on their minds. In that regard, membership can be viewed as a preventative measure; and you know what they say about an ounce of prevention.

It stands as a singular irony that the best way to keep the NRA from compromising on legislation seems to be by joining them; thereby keeping them a strong deterrent to mischievous legislation. After all, the NRA can't compromise on a bill that is not before congress.
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Old November 21, 2009, 08:32 AM   #20
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I had the same question as the OP. But the reason was, I did not check into what (& where) the NRA was activly doing.

I have never seen the NRA advertise (TV commercials is what I meant) to try to obtain members, or educate the public on firearms ownership. Basically, I was wondering what the NRA did for me, because in the end, it is all about me. ( ) Now I know.

I have done quite a bit of reading and searching since then and now understand what the NRA does. I am also proud to say I am a NRA member.

I would challenge you to figure out what you want from the NRA and write them a letter. Let them know what questions you have, what concerns you have and also ask them what have they done for the state you live in.

Like a previous poster wrote, there is strength in numbers when it comes to politicians. They, unfortunately, do not seem concerned about you and I, but only about the numbers.
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Old November 21, 2009, 10:23 AM   #21
Glenn E. Meyer
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Certainly one should join the NRA. Some things they do, that you may not know. They have a research arm that challenges bogus or biases studies about firearms usage. I have seen their folk at criminology conventions challenge raving opponents of the RKBA who present ill designed research.

Personally, that branch of the organization has been very helpful to me on some projects. They even bought me lunch in DC.

Excellent folks - I might not agree with this or that but they are the real game. Organizations that make their money by just attacking the NRA don't accomplish much.

Also, a good state organization should be supported. Very important to do.

One can go down the road of ideological purity (your version of the truth), sit, rant and stew - and then lose the war.
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Old November 21, 2009, 10:58 AM   #22
ilbob
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Quote:
The NRA does a lot besides "just play the political game" and they desperately need people to join, but more importantly to volunteer their time.
There are plenty of things that you can do. Become a firearms safety instructor or coach and teach safe shooting. We need more people involved in the shooting sports. A lot of city dwellers never had the chance to go shooting when they were kids so never develop an appreciation for firearms.

Friends of the NRA raises money for projects that are mostly local in nature.

The NRA is big in teaching hunter safety classes (I think they may have originated the first organized hunter safety classes), and in self defense classes. If one of those trips your trigger go that way.

You can become a range safety officer and help new shooters practice their skills safely.

If you really just can't stand the NRA, join another shooting/hunting/self-defense organization and help spread the word to new shooters. USPSA, IDPA, SASS, and CORE come to mind. They all need volunteers to safely run matches and help teach skills to new shooters.

Local gun clubs are another place you can volunteer. I can tell you it is hard to get enough volunteers to keep a gun club running. Help out running matches, or cleaning up, or building a new range. I spend every Tuesday night for 6 months of the year running a bullseye league at my local club. We average probably 10-15 new people every season that come in and shoot a few times. A few join the club, a few come back on a regular basis, most don't. But they got a chance to come shoot in an organized and safe setting, and had some fun.
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