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Old November 16, 2009, 10:25 PM   #1
MontanaS
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Old muley stag teeth

I don't have the age verified yet but thought you might like to take a guess
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Old November 16, 2009, 11:16 PM   #2
Art Eatman
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Somewhere between very old and ancient. 8-1/2?
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Old November 17, 2009, 12:10 AM   #3
fastforty
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If you put that deer down, you did him a favor. He'da had a tough time making it through the winter on bark & sticks.
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Old November 17, 2009, 12:35 AM   #4
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Aging a deer by there teeth has a lot to do with the area there from. Here in south Texas, the terrian is real sandy. Ive shot 4 1/2 yr old deer that's teeth looked like a 7 1/2 yr old because the sand wears down there teeth so quick. A game warden friend of mine told me a couple of yrs ago that if the first moller is worn down, your looking at around 5 1/2. If the second one is worn down, it's around 6 1/2. He said after that, it's just a guess. Whatever it is, you did it a favor.
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Old November 17, 2009, 12:53 AM   #5
Uncle Buck
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Wow! We have had broken mouth ten year old cows that had better teeth than that. I can not wait to find out how old it was. Do you have a picture of the full beast?
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Old November 17, 2009, 05:16 AM   #6
hogdogs
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Unky Buck,
Here is a link to the thread with link and pics posted on his old buck.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=384670
That jaw is showin' some worn teeth, being premature or truly old... he really wore them down.
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Old November 17, 2009, 09:15 AM   #7
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Thanks HogDogs, that is a nice animal.
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Old November 17, 2009, 04:21 PM   #8
Dr. A
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Thats got shearing wear, which speeds up the wearing process. Abnormal wear there! You'd have to half one of the normal teeth to find out. Interesting he was as fat as he was.
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Old November 17, 2009, 06:21 PM   #9
Double Naught Spy
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I don't know about that being abnormal wear. That is the expected wear pattern that you would expect for a very old deer, as Art noted 8.5 - ancient in age. My guess would be 9 or over since the wear goes beyond what you see for most 8.5 year olds, but that may vary with diet. It could be that the wear seen is normal for 8.5 year olds in that area.
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Old November 18, 2009, 10:12 AM   #10
Dr. A
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I've got enough pathology of Ungulates under my belt to know abnomal wear, and that is a shear mouth. I've done too much corrective floating and sx. All animals wear, but not to that degree. The visible root on the outside of the tooth is all you have to see with abnormal wear. If your seeing all old deer with a sheer mouth, then you have some abnormal deer. Teeth wear from the top down. If their wearing on their sides, as in the outside is here, they are getting abnormal wear. Even the teeth from back to front have very different wear angles. No doubt that is a very old deer.

A more normal 9.5 yr olds mouth>



Notice the roots are not visible from the outside.

A bunch of pointed tips on cheek teeth are indicative of a younger animal. WIth the shears, this may be difficult to determine, but I'd say the 5.5 yr animal here;


or




may show a more similar pattern to the hind cheek teeth with points.

More simply put, his bite was abnormal, and gave him abnormal wear. I totally agree about the sand speeding things up. pasture fed animals wear much faster than grain fed.

Last edited by Dr. A; November 18, 2009 at 10:57 AM.
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Old November 18, 2009, 03:43 PM   #11
Double Naught Spy
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Okay, you lost me on how it is that you were trying to explain what shear mouth is based on the examples you provided.

Quote:
A bunch of pointed tips on cheek teeth are indicative of a younger animal. WIth the shears, this may be difficult to determine, but I'd say the 5.5 yr animal here;
That is terrific. Of course, the picture identifies it as a 5 1/2 year old (and the pic apparently comes from the USGS http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/m...rteth/ages.htm )

Quote:
The visible root on the outside of the tooth is all you have to see with abnormal wear.
So you are saying that alveolar resorption indicates abnormal wear? I can see roots on both the buccal and lingual sides in the OP's image.

Quote:
If their wearing on their sides, as in the outside is here, they are getting abnormal wear. Even the teeth from back to front have very different wear angles. No doubt that is a very old deer.
Please highlight the image and show me what is wear on the outside of the teeth.
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Old November 18, 2009, 04:56 PM   #12
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I dunno, it just looks painful. I believe I'd want to be shot if I had worn my teeth that much
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Old November 19, 2009, 08:52 AM   #13
Dr. A
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The examples I posted shows normal wear. The wear I mentioned was buccal aspect of the crown. (not the root) On a human, the tooth would be displaying the pulp chamber from the crown. We need another angle to show the extreme wear at the top aspect of the tooth. To view it from the front would show an angle of wear. The top most portioin of the crown wears the most extreme. The bottom of the crown the least.

I'm not savy enough to point that out on a computer. Particularly now with no example shown.

The original pictures are from Murray Fowlers old veterinary books (I believe) and are displayed at least 2 places on the web.

Also:

http://www.whitetails.com/index.php?...tion&Itemid=40

Last edited by Dr. A; November 19, 2009 at 09:15 AM.
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