Are Lead Fragments in Your Venison? - Page 2

**hogdogs** · November 17, 2009, 06:25 AM

I don't even want to know what my lead level is...

I have opened and pinched jillions of split shot with my teeth and carried dozens of pounds of air rifle pellets in my mouth for quick access...
All this on top of the other ways a redneck kid can get into lead.

Brent

2damnold4this · November 17, 2009, 08:54 AM

That is why the pioneers died out - lead poisoning

Well, they are all dead. Seriously, our ancestors killed their game with lower velocity bullets than we use today. From the study simonkenton posted we can see that muzzleloader bullets and shotgun slugs tend to fragment less and leave less lead in the meat than the modern high velocity ammunition we use today.

The CDC's North Dakota study suggest that most people don't have to worry about lead exposure even if the venison is harvested with high velocity lead ammunition but people who are have certain risk factors should be aware that they might be exposed to a bit more lead. If I had health problems due to elevated lead levels like simonkenton, I would want to watch what I ate very carefully. For most of us, the health benefits of eating venison harvested with high velocity lead bullets will far outweigh the slight increase in lead levels in our bodies. Most of us should be fine but it's perfectly understandable that some of us need to be a bit more cautious.

globemaster3 · November 17, 2009, 09:57 AM

Minnesota ran this study in April of 2008 and these quotes were taken from The Star Tribune in Minneapolis. This was the result:

Quote:

The discovery of varying amounts of lead in 25 percent of the 299 samples tested surprised Minnesota officials because, until recently, it had never been an issue.

What sparked it was this:

Quote:

North Dakota found lead fragments in donated venison there and ordered it thrown away. That sparked the Minnesota investigation. Wisconsin also is testing donated venison. Iowa tested some and found trace amounts of lead.

The result was the state discarding all the donated venison provided by the Hunters for the Hungry program. Important to note also: there were no reports of illness from lead ingestion from donated meat.

But, the NRA reported this

Quote:

NRA and other groups reported the fact that the original lead fragments found last fall were discovered by a dermatologist, William Cornatzer, who is on the board of directors of the Peregrine Fund, which seeks to ban the use of lead ammunition. His reports surfaced within days of a Peregrine Fund conference to address the issue.

from this site http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=597
which seems to unveil a hidden agenda.

The NRA also posted some great Q&As here:
http://www.nrahunterrights.org/LeadIssues.aspx

In the end, the Hunters for the Hungry program is still providing donated meat. Its being xrayed for contamination which runs ~$6,000/year.

What I wish I could find, and I don't have time for a search here, is the article highlighting any tainted testing methods used by the original study's author. I thought I remember something on it, but couldn't find it on the web.

2damnold4this · November 17, 2009, 10:27 AM

I think the CDC's North Dakota study put to rest most of the questions about lead in venison. It came out in October 2008 http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/ND_report.pdf

Double Naught Spy · November 17, 2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

I don't even want to know what my lead level is...
I have opened and pinched jillions of split shot with my teeth and carried dozens of pounds of air rifle pellets in my mouth for quick access...
All this on top of the other ways a redneck kid can get into lead.

Some folks are more sensitive to lead than others. Then again, some are more sensitive to a lot of chemicals, minerals, etc. simonkenton may be overly sensitive or have had extensive exposure outside of hunted food. hogdogs may not be sensitive or not one to retain lead in his system readily despite obvious unsafe behaviors (you didn't eat lead paint chips as well, did you?). I see these two as something of being at the extremes with most of us falling well between them.

You have to admit, given our proclivity for distrusting the government and the CDC being a government organization, the CDC being full of doctors and so many of us not trusting doctors as apparently so many are anti-gun, then if the CDC isn't having a problem with said hunted meat, I have to think the problem some folks may be experiencing with slightly tainted meat is either because they are biologically extreme (overly sensitive) or have suffered other environmental factors.

davlandrum · November 17, 2009, 12:11 PM

Thanks for the link, 2damnold4this.

The key paragraph, in my opinion is on page 9, last paragraph -

paraphrased paragraph - study suggests consumption of wild game can impact lead levels, the geometric mean of lead levels in this study WAS LOWER than the overall population... (my emphasis).

It further goes on to talk about the mean lead levels in the population going down in recent decades, but still being several orders of magnitude higher than preindustrial society.

I would be curious to see a similar study done with commercially prepared beef. How much is coming off the grinders and saws.....

Double Naught Spy · November 17, 2009, 01:05 PM

So you are saying/suggesting that those who are regular consumers of wild game actually had lower levels of lead than the rest of the population despite potentially increasing their personal lead levels via the ingestion of bullet fragments?

That would be rather ironic.

2damnold4this · November 17, 2009, 03:29 PM

So you are saying/suggesting that those who are regular consumers of wild game actually had lower levels of lead than the rest of the population despite potentially increasing their personal lead levels via the ingestion of bullet fragments?

The CDC study compared lead levels in people in North Dakota. All of the participants in the study tended to have lower than the national average of lead. Those that ate venison harvested with lead bullets had slightly higher lead levels on average than those that didn't. None of the participants in the study had lead levels high enough for the CDC to recommend case management.

reloader28 · November 17, 2009, 04:20 PM

If you dig deep enough you find 90% of these types of "scientific" studies are funded from pro animal/ anti hunting groups. Thats a fact.
If youre going to worry about contaminated food, you better quit buying from the grocery store.That chemical and preservative indused crap is a lot worse for you than any wild game you shoot with any kind of bullet. Thats another fact.
I am sorry for the people that have gotten lead poisoning, I may join you someday, but for now I'm not going to worry about it. If I do get it, I'll probably go cast some more bullets to take my mind off it. What do I have to lose?
Its also a fact if you worry and stress about, you wont live any longer than if you would have just done it anyway. Stress is a major killer in our society these days. I'm not saying to go and eat a lead ingot every day, just dont put much faith in these so called tests. Lead poisoning is real but the government only lets you know what they want you to know. Ask any war vet about that.
The people in California face death every day. Read ANY lable on ANTHING and it causes cancer. Just reading about it can cause cancer in California. Glad I dont live there.
I'm just saying, youre going to get sick and die from something sooner or later anyway, why worry about a little old deer? I'm 38 and have been eating home butchered deer and elk for about 38 years of that (all my life). Not one of us has had a problem.
Go put a big deer steak on the grill with plenty of salt for seasoning, and wash it down with a couple beers. For dessert, get a big bowl of homemade ice-cream made from pure, fresh farm cream and lots of sugar.
I bet you'll feel better. Sounds good, I'm going to go eat.

November 17, 2009, 06:25 AM	#26
hogdogs Staff Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 10,690	I don't even want to know what my lead level is... I have opened and pinched jillions of split shot with my teeth and carried dozens of pounds of air rifle pellets in my mouth for quick access... All this on top of the other ways a redneck kid can get into lead. Brent __________________ Finally have designs going up in the Hogdogs Outdoor Apparel online store. http://www.cafepress.com/hogdogsoutdoorapparel Thanks for lookin'...

November 17, 2009, 12:11 PM	#31
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,546	Thanks for the link, 2damnold4this. The key paragraph, in my opinion is on page 9, last paragraph - paraphrased paragraph - study suggests consumption of wild game can impact lead levels, the geometric mean of lead levels in this study WAS LOWER than the overall population... (my emphasis). It further goes on to talk about the mean lead levels in the population going down in recent decades, but still being several orders of magnitude higher than preindustrial society. I would be curious to see a similar study done with commercially prepared beef. How much is coming off the grinders and saws..... __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

November 17, 2009, 01:05 PM	#32
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas Posts: 9,737	So you are saying/suggesting that those who are regular consumers of wild game actually had lower levels of lead than the rest of the population despite potentially increasing their personal lead levels via the ingestion of bullet fragments? That would be rather ironic. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011

November 17, 2009, 08:54 AM	#27
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 1,031	That is why the pioneers died out - lead poisoning Well, they are all dead. Seriously, our ancestors killed their game with lower velocity bullets than we use today. From the study simonkenton posted we can see that muzzleloader bullets and shotgun slugs tend to fragment less and leave less lead in the meat than the modern high velocity ammunition we use today. The CDC's North Dakota study suggest that most people don't have to worry about lead exposure even if the venison is harvested with high velocity lead ammunition but people who are have certain risk factors should be aware that they might be exposed to a bit more lead. If I had health problems due to elevated lead levels like simonkenton, I would want to watch what I ate very carefully. For most of us, the health benefits of eating venison harvested with high velocity lead bullets will far outweigh the slight increase in lead levels in our bodies. Most of us should be fine but it's perfectly understandable that some of us need to be a bit more cautious.

November 17, 2009, 10:27 AM	#29
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 1,031	I think the CDC's North Dakota study put to rest most of the questions about lead in venison. It came out in October 2008 http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/ND_report.pdf

November 17, 2009, 03:29 PM	#33
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 1,031	So you are saying/suggesting that those who are regular consumers of wild game actually had lower levels of lead than the rest of the population despite potentially increasing their personal lead levels via the ingestion of bullet fragments? The CDC study compared lead levels in people in North Dakota. All of the participants in the study tended to have lower than the national average of lead. Those that ate venison harvested with lead bullets had slightly higher lead levels on average than those that didn't. None of the participants in the study had lead levels high enough for the CDC to recommend case management.

November 17, 2009, 04:20 PM	#34
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 840	If you dig deep enough you find 90% of these types of "scientific" studies are funded from pro animal/ anti hunting groups. Thats a fact. If youre going to worry about contaminated food, you better quit buying from the grocery store.That chemical and preservative indused crap is a lot worse for you than any wild game you shoot with any kind of bullet. Thats another fact. I am sorry for the people that have gotten lead poisoning, I may join you someday, but for now I'm not going to worry about it. If I do get it, I'll probably go cast some more bullets to take my mind off it. What do I have to lose? Its also a fact if you worry and stress about, you wont live any longer than if you would have just done it anyway. Stress is a major killer in our society these days. I'm not saying to go and eat a lead ingot every day, just dont put much faith in these so called tests. Lead poisoning is real but the government only lets you know what they want you to know. Ask any war vet about that. The people in California face death every day. Read ANY lable on ANTHING and it causes cancer. Just reading about it can cause cancer in California. Glad I dont live there. I'm just saying, youre going to get sick and die from something sooner or later anyway, why worry about a little old deer? I'm 38 and have been eating home butchered deer and elk for about 38 years of that (all my life). Not one of us has had a problem. Go put a big deer steak on the grill with plenty of salt for seasoning, and wash it down with a couple beers. For dessert, get a big bowl of homemade ice-cream made from pure, fresh farm cream and lots of sugar. I bet you'll feel better. Sounds good, I'm going to go eat.