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Old November 12, 2009, 02:22 AM   #1
olyinaz
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.454 Casull from a 92 lever action?

Anyone have any experience with levers chambered for .454? Rossi 92s in particular?

I'm wondering if they feed .45 Colts properly and looking for general impressions.

Thanks,
Oly
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Old November 12, 2009, 11:01 AM   #2
wyobohunter
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bump

I'm curious about the same exact thing...
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Old November 12, 2009, 02:01 PM   #3
tINY
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Mine did, someone else had issues.

I only roll my own in 454 brass now... Too much to give up by shooting factory 45 colt. With 300gr @ 1900fps out of the 16 inch trapper, it's a lot to shoulder. I'm hoping the 360gr hardcast at around 1600 are more of a shove than a smack to the shoulder.

If you want to shoot 45 colt, get the 45 colt version. You should be able to load them up to Ruger revolver levels just fine.




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Old November 12, 2009, 02:20 PM   #4
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Does a Marlin .454 count? Had one and never had a problem with it. Damn fine calibar as well. Will knock a running at you, 350lb ferral hog, down with no problem. Just one thing....don't use it for deer hunting...will just plum ruin the meat.


Whoops disregard, .444 is what I was talking about sorry
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Old November 12, 2009, 02:59 PM   #5
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I had a 20" bbld Puma/Rossi in .454. I shot the Win 325 JFP and the Hornady 300s. Both were punishing to say the least. Only rifle that ever gave me a flinch. It was a terrific gun though. Mine would not feed Colts AT ALL, I didn't reload at the time so I sold it. One of the only rifles I REALLY regret getting rid of. I say go for it. Buy a simple hand press and a set of dies and you can do whatever you want with it. Wish I had known that...
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Old November 12, 2009, 08:09 PM   #6
tINY
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I've got the 360gr hardcast. I wouldn't expect them to expand much on deer - and they are fat enough that a big Meplat will punch them hard enough to knock them down...

We'll see.




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Old November 12, 2009, 09:25 PM   #7
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Well it's not only on order, it's in at the gun shop! Took all of three days from the time I ordered it on Gun Genie. I'll pick it up when I get home from the trip I'm on - 20" blued Rossi 92. I guess we'll see about that recoil...

I'll reload the .454s if that's the only thing it'll feed but I will admit to being disappointed if it doesn't feed Colts as I didn't want to have to have to set up a different set of dies.

I ordered the 16" carbine with the big hoop in .357/.38 for my son for Christmas.

Thanks,
Oly
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Old November 13, 2009, 08:55 AM   #8
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Your's may be alright. I've heard a lot of the newer ones don't have the feeding problems the old ones did. If not, you might try loading the Colts with a longer OAL.
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Old November 13, 2009, 01:04 PM   #9
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I actually just took delivery of one of these that is to be my Christmas present from my wife. Naturally, I had to check it for function prior to wrapping it up.

I did not feed it any .454, but it went through approximately 50 .45 LC's without a hitch, both 250 grain LRN and 200 grain LSWC. The only issue I had was a very strong ejector spring. I haven't decided yet whether to trim it down or let it wear in.
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Old November 14, 2009, 12:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
I actually just took delivery of one of these that is to be my Christmas present from my wife. Naturally, I had to check it for function prior to wrapping it up.
LOL That is EXACTLY my position! It's my Christmas present and I pick it up tomorrow. I may have to stop at the range on the way home "just to be sure".

Quote:
I did not feed it any .454, but it went through approximately 50 .45 LC's without a hitch, both 250 grain LRN and 200 grain LSWC. The only issue I had was a very strong ejector spring. I haven't decided yet whether to trim it down or let it wear in.
Excellent! I've got some Hornady Leverevolution in .45 Colt that I'll try in mine.

Best,
Oly
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Old November 14, 2009, 02:15 AM   #11
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No personal experience here, but I was researching this about a year ago. I've read good and bad about them. Some people were actually very adamant about how much they distrusted the metallurgy that supposedly allows the 92 action to handle the high pressures of the Casull round. As far as accuracy goes, from what I've read people seem to agree that expect to hit paper plate size targets at 100 yards, but no minute of such and such.

If you google "Gunblast Legacy 92" you can read a good review of the gun. The puma 92s and rossi 92s are essentially the same gun. Some of the handload velocities they publish make this gun very appealing.

Anyway just to repeat, I have no personal experience, I've just read alot about it, and I can tell you that recently Taurus bought Rossi, and they have some new models in their 2009 online e-catalog.
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Old November 14, 2009, 02:58 AM   #12
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I've owned a 16" Puma 92 in .454 Casull for 5 years. It's a great little rifle with a big punch.
Longer .45 Colt feed well while shorter ones do not but it is a moot point for me. I never fire .45 Colt in a .454 Casull anymore.

Firing .45 Colt in .454 Casull leaves carbon build up in the chamber just past the mouth of the .45 Colt cartridge. If this is not cleaned well before firing the longer .454 Casull then chamber pressures skyrocket on an already very high pressure cartridge. This can lead to unpleasant results to rifle and shooter.

If I want .45 Colt velocities in .454 Casull, I load .454 Casull brass to .45 Colt velocities.

My Puma 92 shoots 2 inch groups with open sights and my eyes. The recoil is not bad - similar to a 20 ga shotgun.

Larry
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Old November 14, 2009, 01:46 PM   #13
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Those must be pretty mild loads by 454 standards...



-tINY

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Old November 14, 2009, 11:08 PM   #14
olyinaz
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Quote:
Firing .45 Colt in .454 Casull leaves carbon build up in the chamber just past the mouth of the .45 Colt cartridge. If this is not cleaned well before firing the longer .454 Casull then chamber pressures skyrocket on an already very high pressure cartridge. This can lead to unpleasant results to rifle and shooter.
Indeed I think that's the case with firing .38s out of a .357 lever action as well. In my case, my Win 94 does not like to shoot .357s after shooting .38s (learned the hard way) so I don't do it. If I start with a clean brushed chamber I'll shoot .357s before I switch to .38s and I plan to follow the same procedure with my .454.

But your point about reloading is well taken and that's what I had planned to do but I've noticed that .454 brass is something like 70% more expensive than .45 Colt brass. Sheesh! Provided mine feeds .45 Colt well I think I'll just stick to the Colts and buy .454 if I need it for hunting (and clean my chamber real well).

Best,
Oly
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Old November 14, 2009, 11:16 PM   #15
olyinaz
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In hand

Got it! It's in pieces at the moment so you'll have to wait.

I noticed a small rust flower by the wood on the top tang so I took it apart. Hey - how nice of Rossi/Davidson's to ship it to me with the action full of rust! What a swell bunch. The exterior and barrel are fine, but I kid you not - when I got the wood off most of the inside of the tang and the back of the action were RED with the stuff. The magazine tube inside the front wood was the same - some nice pits.

The good news is it looks as if Rossi has upped their game in the wood department a bit - I can actually see the wood grain and it's kind of nice. Most of these I have seen in the shops have the worst wood I've seen on any gun from anyone...ever. So that was a good thing.

I'll get it back together for some photos tomorrow.

Best,
Oly
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Old November 14, 2009, 11:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY
Those must be pretty mild loads by 454 standards...
Yes, .45 colt is mild compared to .454 Casull.

I find the .454 recoil is a non-issue and prefer normal .454 loads.

Larry
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Old November 16, 2009, 11:09 PM   #17
olyinaz
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Well after an outting at the range today I gotta say that I find .454 recoil to be a very definite issue! Sheesh, felt more like a 12 ga. than a 20 ga. to me and by that I mean it feels like my 12 double barrel coach gun - BAM! No fun.

And unfortunately mine does not seem to like to feed .45 Colts. I had some .45s in Hornady Leverevolution with me and while they were a joy to shoot (dang accurate as well) they seem to come up to the breech at angle that ensures that they're hard to drive home. I actually had my hand slip out of the lever once or twice and had to bang 'em home with the flat of my hand to get it closed. So that's not good and obviously I've just bought a lever gun that I now pretty much have to reload for because: 1) Factory .454 ammo is so stupid expensive I'll pay for a reloading press in short order, and 2) as I learned today I don't have much appetite for plinking with full-on .454 loads.

Also, the action is a bit tight so if I grow to love the thing I could see sending it off to that Rossi specialist for an action job.

Lastly, the gun has two features that surprised me: 1) It's got a recoil pad that's ill fitting and unattractive. I'd much rather have preferred simply using a slip on unit for those times when I'm shooting .454s. And, 2) It's got a slide out magazine tube that allows you to load it from the tube-top via a cartridge shaped slot much like the current Henrys and many of the .22 rimfires we grew up with. Everyone at my shop raised their eyebrows at that one because we just hadn't seen it on a 92 - have you guys?? There is a knurled end that screws out and I must admit that I like it but I also feel as though it's made the magazine tube larger/thicker than it needed to be otherwise and it shows in the wood fore end - it's split from the front to the back up under the barrel because there simply wasn't enough room for the wood to fit in the gap with such a fat magazine tube. You can't see it, but I can when I take the fore end off and I think it's poor.

Neither feature is visible in the images of the gun at Rossi or Davidson's:



The bluing, I must say, is very nice on the entire gun but the wood is poor. Not as bad as past Rossis, but not good. The Italians, I must say, do a better job with wood.

So all in all I like it but I'm disappointed that mine doesn't seem to like .45s.

Best,
Oly
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Old November 17, 2009, 12:05 AM   #18
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Oly,
If your butt plate is shaped like the crescent one in picture, that would explain the unpleasant recoil effects. My factory butt plate is straight with a recoil pad.

Remington's 20 gauge Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded 260 gr Sabot Slugs are listed at 1900 fps. The difference is only about 100 fps compared to a 16 in Puma shooting 260 gr bullets.

Same bullet weights and similar velocities with similar weight guns yield similar recoil energy. Neither my Ithaca featherlight 20 ga nor Puma 92 have crescent buttplates so they feel the same.

One big advantage of the screwtop magazine is that if allows one to unload the magazine without having to use the lever to jack all the rounds out.

Larry
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Old November 17, 2009, 02:21 AM   #19
olyinaz
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>>>One big advantage of the screwtop magazine is that if allows one to unload the magazine without having to use the lever to jack all the rounds out.<<<

By golly, I hadn't thought of that. That's a very good point indeed.

I was shooting 300gr slugs out of mine today but I think it's moot because even with the recoil pad (which mine does also have) I just wasn't enjoying it. Some folks seem to have a much higher tolerance for recoil than I do but in any case I don't mind when it comes to hunting (which I think this rifle would excel at) but I need to make up some rounds for enjoyable plinking. Something like standard .45 Colt cowboy loads so that my boys and I can enjoy the rifle out just having fun.

Best,
Oly
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Old November 17, 2009, 03:10 AM   #20
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Some recoil pads are more effective than others.
I was able to tame my .338 Win Mag with a Pachmayr Decelerator. It is much better than the original factory pad.

Larry
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Old November 17, 2009, 03:41 AM   #21
olyinaz
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An article

Found this on-line. A very nice writeup about the Puma (Rossi) 92 in .454 Casull:

http://www.gunweek.com/2007/feature0101.html

Cheers,
Oly
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Old November 17, 2009, 10:02 AM   #22
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Oly I think you should contact Rossi or Davidson's about the issues with the gun. A split forend and rust on a factory new gun is unnacceptable. Seems like it should be replaced.
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Old November 17, 2009, 12:58 PM   #23
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Ditto. No way I'd accept a new gun with rust on it.
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Old November 17, 2009, 01:06 PM   #24
olyinaz
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Yep, think I'm going to throw in the towel on this one. A good night's sleep gives some perspective (I had new-gun fever pretty bad yesterday).

Best,
Oly
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Old December 14, 2010, 03:13 PM   #25
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I own a 20' bbl. Rossi Puma Model 92 in .454 Casull to complement my Ruger Super Redhawk 7.5" bbl. revolver in the same caliber.

Recoil !! I have a Brown/Grizzly/Kodiak bear backup gun which is a Remington Model 700 in .416 Rem. Mag. chopped to a 20" bbl. The gun weighs 8 1/4 lbs. Now that's recoil !!

I shoot the 350 grain Speer Mag-Tip bullet as I find this drops the big bruins pretty quick. I preferred the thinner jacked thickness (0.032") Barnes 300 grain originals as bear killers but they're getting hard to get.


Compared to the customized 700 in .416 Rem. Mag. the Puma is a cuddly pussycat.
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