The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 3, 2009, 10:56 PM   #1
4winds
Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2009
Posts: 43
Better varmint gun

In a purely hunting situation, AR15 in 223 or a lightweight bolt like a cz 527 n 223 for coyotes?
4winds is offline  
Old November 3, 2009, 11:15 PM   #2
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
The guys I know using the AR for 'yotes are super happy to be able to get that second shot off for the "texas heart shot" on those that opt to run.
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old November 3, 2009, 11:28 PM   #3
Swampghost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: Florida, east coast
Posts: 2,106
Scroll down. On the lower right you'll see 'Archives', click. Type your keywords into the searchbar, click search. You'll find at least a days worth of info.
__________________
NRA Patron Member
Swampghost is offline  
Old November 3, 2009, 11:34 PM   #4
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 7,112
Do you handload?

I don't know about the AR platform, but all my reloading manuals tell me to full length size for levers and semi-autos..... neck sizing is easier on brass, quicker, and is supposed to be more accurate.

As for follow-up shots..... practice working the bolt w/o taking the gun off your shoulder or removing your cheek from the stock. It is not signifigantly slower than a semi- it takes more time to get a good sight picture than it does to work the bolt....... but it does require that nasty P word: Practice.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old November 3, 2009, 11:34 PM   #5
4winds
Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2009
Posts: 43
If going with an AR...

If an AR15 is are the varmint version AR's going to have any real advantage over a "stock" AR?

And yes...I know what the archives are for, that is why I don't have may postings.
4winds is offline  
Old November 3, 2009, 11:43 PM   #6
4winds
Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2009
Posts: 43
Specifically...

In the future I'll be heading down the reloading route. Not worried about follow up shots, I have been using a bolt action since...well lets just say a long time. I was more curious about the function of the weapon systems in terms of actually varmint hunting, forgive my generalities. with calling, using sticks, moving from spot to spot, etc. wouldn't a bolt action be more versatile, less cumbersome, more affordable and lighter to haul around? I see alot of folks using ARs on the web, just though I might be missing something?
4winds is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 12:19 AM   #7
trooper3385
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 797
The big advantage I would see that the AR would give you would be quicker follow up shots. Coyotes sometime come in pairs or groups. With a bolt action, your pretty much done for that session after dropping one. The AR would give you the chance of getting off another shot at the others. The AR's can be real accurate. But your heavy barrel AR varmint rigs can get pretty heavy. Same goes with bolt actions as well. Your probably not going to be doing much spot and stalk varmint hunting though. Weight shouldn't be much of an issue. Both should work fine. I think it's more of a personal preference than anything.
trooper3385 is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 12:42 AM   #8
Swampghost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: Florida, east coast
Posts: 2,106
I'll yield a hair to the 'follow up shot' but not much. Thinking about it, most folks haven't been working a bolt for 50+ yrs. You can get pretty fast with experience and it's automatic, think 'quick draw'.

Make the first shot count and you won't need a second.
__________________
NRA Patron Member
Swampghost is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 01:43 AM   #9
Dr. Strangelove
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2008
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 1,418
Quote:
I'll yield a hair to the 'follow up shot' but not much. Thinking about it, most folks haven't been working a bolt for 50+ yrs. You can get pretty fast with experience and it's automatic, think 'quick draw'.

Make the first shot count and you won't need a second
Great post. Especially in a short action round like .223, follow-up shots are quick on a bolt gun with some practice. Nothing against the AR platform, but I like bolt guns.

Semi-auto is faster, but hunting isn't about laying down fire, it's about accurate shooting. Not that some folks aren't accurate at high rates of fire, but semi-autos tend to encourage "spray and pray".
Dr. Strangelove is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 02:12 AM   #10
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,537
Having hunted coyotes quite a bit years ago, I can see some advantage to an AR. The main advantage I can think of in coyote hunting is there is less movement with an AR or any other semiauto because your hands don't move around to work a bolt. Most animals, and particularly predators, are very alert to movement. If you set up in a ground blind with a camo cover, not having to move to get off the second shot may very well net you more coyotes.

If you go flailing around in in the brush wearing a red shirt and jeans, laughing and walking around, it won't make any difference anyway.

And I would match my AR against just about any bolt action for accuracy. A good scope, good fire discipline, and look out.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 10:53 AM   #11
4winds
Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2009
Posts: 43
Limiting movement would make sense. HMMMMMMmmmm. Have any of yall started out in a bolt and went to the AR or vice versa. Being a longer in the tooth, Ive really ratcheted my comfort level up as a top priority.
4winds is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 11:12 AM   #12
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
4winds, PM sent to ya'...
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 03:36 PM   #13
4winds
Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2009
Posts: 43
Thanks HogDogs, I'll check it out!
4winds is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 06:53 PM   #14
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,597
I've messed with ARs a good bit, but I prefer a bolt-action. And, so far, I've yet to need more than one shot on Ol' Wily.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 07:00 PM   #15
ZeroJunk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Location: Browns Summit NC
Posts: 2,508
I know that wild animals are unpredictable, but if you just fired a high powered rifle at one I don't know that I would expect the movement of the bolt to add much more to the flight.
ZeroJunk is offline  
Old November 4, 2009, 11:32 PM   #16
Dave R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2000
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,073
Quote:
Have any of yall started out in a bolt and went to the AR or vice versa.
I don't hunt 'yotes, but I do a fair amount of varmit hunting. I hunt with a buddy who uses an AR. Varmit hunting can enourage long shots, and I have wounded a few varmits that made me wish for a faster follow-up shot. My buddy has made some fast follow-ups that anchored a few varmits that might have suffered. So I bought an AR. Have not had a chance to use it in the field. Ask me next season.
__________________
I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).
Dave R is offline  
Old November 5, 2009, 12:20 AM   #17
Saguaro Firearms
Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: southern arizona
Posts: 66
here in az around my area its so much easier with an ar if you get more than one dog in to get a second shot off
Saguaro Firearms is offline  
Old November 5, 2009, 10:02 AM   #18
UniversalFrost
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,298
i liked my bushmaster varminter, but was big and heavy, but very accurate.

my 700 VSSF in 22-250 is my main goto yote killer.

for a lightweight setup i like an encore with an 18" barrel in .223 or .220 swift

as far as second shots if you have a good bolt gun and have multiple yotes show up with enough practice you can bag them, just might have to hit them on the run.

I took 3 yotes in succesion recently. all 3 showed up within feet of each other. I dropped the first one, the other two scattered, but got another while he was running away (straight away from me) and then bagged the third when I hit the pup in distress call and got him to stop in his tracks and look back(I lazed him at 398 and wind was only 5mph in my face so real easy shot).
__________________
Lifetime member VFW and NRA

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

UniversalFrost is offline  
Old November 5, 2009, 12:42 PM   #19
wyobohunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2008
Location: Back in Wyoming
Posts: 1,125
My single shot works for me. I'd go with the bolt gun if you are going to reload. If you live/hunt in wide open country the bolt gun should allow plenty of time for a follow up. Just shoot the yote that is farthest away first. I think movement is a non-issue, after any yote hears the first shot he'll be runnin'.
__________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
wyobohunter is offline  
Old November 7, 2009, 03:37 PM   #20
brentf
Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2007
Location: NoDak
Posts: 29
my preference is for the bolt gun, make the first one count
brentf is offline  
Old November 8, 2009, 03:25 PM   #21
jdscholer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2008
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 930
So far, all I've used to dump around a hundred coyotes is my bolt actions and pump shotgun. (I usually pack them both to my stands)

I just bought the latest issue of "Predator X'treme" Magazine and it looks like the AR platform is now very popular. I've never used or carried one, so I'm clueless as to the weight, comfort, convenience of the style. I'd surely want to handle one quite a bit before I laid out the bucks for a gun that might not fit my style of carry.

I have shot at the rear ends of enough escaping coyotes to know that a low recoil, semi-auto would probably get a higher percentage of kills than my bolt action.

When I'm walking a half mile back to my rig with a rifle, a shotgun, and a dead coyote, it's VERY Important to me how the weapon carries on a sling.

I'm getting kind of lazy about carrying both guns, and paid for it on my last trip. There were two dogs that would have become pelts if I had been holding my shotgun ready in my hands. There ARE times when a split second makes a big difference. jd
__________________
"We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher
jdscholer is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12899 seconds with 9 queries