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Old November 6, 2009, 11:32 AM   #1
shuppr
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Lubing Cast bullets

I am fairly new to reloading have been buying bullets at various places however have only reloaded one caliber so far that is 30 Carbine 110grn jacketed bullet using H110 14 grains works very well. Also Lead 115 grain using H110 at 12grns again works well. I am in the beginning stages of casting my own bullets but do not have a sizer/lubricater the molds I have are

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 358-158-RF 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 38 Colt New Police (358 Diameter) 158 Grain Flat Nose

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 401-175-TC 40 S&W (401 Diameter) 175 Grain Truncated Cone
I have searched all the forums read the Lee manual read Lyman 49th edition So my question is Can I pan lube these bullets made from these Molds and if so what lube would be recommended.

Thanks
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Old November 6, 2009, 12:33 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum.

Yes. There's another shortcut, and that's the Lee Liquid Alox lube. It is made for their tumble lube design and coats the bullets rather than filling the lube grooves. Even though that is meant to work only with the numerous small grooves of their Tumble Lube designs, everyone reports that it works well on standard shapes. At least, it does if they aren't driven too hard. White Label Xlox is the same thing. Less expensive, but you have to purchase a larger quantity.

For sizing, the Lee press-mounted sizers work fine and are inexpensive. Lube first, run through one of those, then put a second coat on. If the bullet size as-cast fits in your gun OK, then you may find you do better, from an accuracy standpoint, not to size them at all.
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Old November 6, 2009, 01:59 PM   #3
shuppr
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Thank you so much for the info I wasn't sure if the Liquid Alox would work on those types of bullets or not. I can now get to work casting.
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Old November 6, 2009, 02:50 PM   #4
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personally, i hate liquid alox. i have found that doing it just once wasnt enough, that i would have to coat it agian, which is impossible if your lubing some 300 bullets... not to mention that the liquid alox will then get into ur dies, while cleaning those dies isnt hard at all you still have to take it apart and then figure out where your settings were. i have never tried pan lubing, i would suspect that its in the cost/effiency range in the middle of liquid alox and getting a lubrisizer. the lubrisizers like lyman 4500 are expensive but personally worth it. but either way good luck!
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Old November 6, 2009, 03:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Can I pan lube these bullets made from these Molds and if so what lube would be recommended.
Yes.

I use Rooster Jacket. Lee Liquid Alox is messy.

Quote:
Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 401-175-TC 40 S&W (401 Diameter) 175 Grain Truncated Cone
I use that all the time.
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Old November 6, 2009, 03:57 PM   #6
shuppr
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Thanks for all the information I will put it to good use but will have to wait on a lubrisizer as funds are a little short. However I still have a bunch of bought lead bullets to reload.

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Old November 6, 2009, 04:19 PM   #7
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If you are going to get a Lubrisizer, get a heater with it. You will need one eventually. Even if the lube says it will work without a heater, it will work better with a heater.

BTW, they take pretty much forever to heat up but work pretty good when warm. (I use a Lyman version.)

BTW, when using Lee Liquid Alox, I just keep one container for lubing bullets. I use cheap chopsticks (disposables from restaurants but new of course) to pick up the bullets and stand them on their bases to dry. Works well enough for the BP rifle bullets I cast.

Good Luck.
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Old November 6, 2009, 08:49 PM   #8
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I just tumble lube bullets, get an old jug with a screw top, toss in a mix of Vaseline, Johnson's paste wax, and a bit of Allox. Shake up until I get a good coating on everything, let it sit for a few minutes so it thickens a bit, then dump it out onto a pan outside and put a fan on it for a few days. (You don't need the fan, but they dry allot faster with one.)

Normally it is thick enough to get it in one go. I use the Lee size dies.
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Old November 6, 2009, 09:58 PM   #9
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I use liquid alox, have had good results
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Old November 6, 2009, 10:28 PM   #10
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LLA will work fine, but can gum up your bullet seating die. If you are serious about casting and want a cleaner finished product, then get a lubrisizer. Lyman, RCBS, Saeco, Star (Magma Engineering) are all great lubrisizers. If you have the $$ in the budget, I would recommend the Star.
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Old November 7, 2009, 01:16 AM   #11
shuppr
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Thanks all lookslike it will be LLA until get lubrisizer to do it right and the lee sizing dies but now have another question.

Casting ones own bullets how do you get the imputities out of the lead wheel weights when melted down what do you use?

Thanks
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Old November 7, 2009, 09:21 AM   #12
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You need to flux the metal to help "clean" it. Fluxing helps return good things into the alloy, thus leaving the bad stuff (dirt) floating alone on top. Pretty much anything works for fluxing. Most common, chunks of wax from candles, a dry wood stick is my method (it must be dry), or even expensive fluxing compound. Stick bullet lube can be used too, but don't use your liquid alox.
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Old November 7, 2009, 09:47 AM   #13
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A dry wood stick? Like a paint stirrer or shim? Whoa. Does it work well? Tell more!

Lubing., I remember casting with my dad when we were young and it must have been before he got a luber/sizer. What we did was to use grease pencils and fill the groove with black grease.

I've always wondered if we were alone on this or if it was a kosher idea. Anyone?
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Old November 7, 2009, 10:27 AM   #14
Rusty W
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For more information you can read in a week try these guys http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ They really know their stuff. I've been using the Lee Method for about 3 years and cast for 4 pistol cartridges and 3 rifle cartridges. I mix the LLA with Johnson Paste Wax 50/50 and it seems to dry better and not as sticky as just plain LLA. I use wheel weights a lot and smelt them in a cast iron pot. I flux with whatever I have. Most of the time I use wax from an old candle. I've been using saw dust recently and it seems to do pretty good too. I remove the clips and trash from the top and pour ingots in muffin tins. That way when I'm ready to cast bullets I don't get my pot all trashed up with the mess from the WW. I've been thinking about getting a Lyman or Star but for no more than I shoot and the start up money it's gonna take the Lee system is working well for me. Here's one more link to a website that I refer too about casting. There's a lot of info here to http://www.lasc.us/
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Old November 7, 2009, 11:07 AM   #15
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Painter stirring stick would work fine. Really any wood, so long it is dry, will work great.
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Old November 7, 2009, 02:07 PM   #16
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Keep it simple......

.......Sizing? Forget about it. You have Lee moulds so you shoot them as cast. However they need to be lubed. Pan lube them and cut the cooled bullets out of the lube using a fired and expanded case with the crimp removed and the primer hole drilled out so you can push the lubed bullet out with an allen wrench or whatever. Oh, yeah, what if you can't find real bullet lube? Toilet-bowl sealing-wax rings work wonderfully. It's what I use all the time. Simple survivalist techniques, guys. Best all-around bullet for .45 Colt? I use a Lee 255 grain RNFP mould and good-old wheel weights.
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Old November 7, 2009, 02:44 PM   #17
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When using the Lee sizer, the directions say to lube the bullet prior to sizing. How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?
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Old November 7, 2009, 04:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?
You don't. I lube them, snap on the gas check, and run them through the sizer.
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Old November 7, 2009, 04:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Quote:
How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?

You don't. I lube them, snap on the gas check, and run them through the sizer.
No problem then with lube being under the gas check and having it fall off? I'm just wondering because I saw a nice mold I want but it is a GC mold.
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Old November 8, 2009, 01:25 AM   #20
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Lots of questions!

If you want to size first, then lube, take some dishwashing detergent like dawn, or joy. Mix it about half/half with water. Dip the bullets in that, it'll be enough lubricant to ease the bullet through. Just rinse in straight water, then lube.

If I want to tumble lube for auto bullets, I tumble lube first, then size IF needed. Only the tumble lube designs don't need sizing, The regular lube groove bullets usually drop too large to be shot as-cast.

Here's another option;





Those are 100 grain .308 round nose for my 7.62 X 25 tok. They were dipped up to the top driving band in LLA. Then placed on the cardboard. Then moved once, then sized in a lee push-through sizer. Labor intensive? Yes, but it gets the job done AND it leaves the nose clean so as not to mess up the seater die.

Another trick; If you're in a hurry to lube & load, put freshly tumble lubed bullets in the oven @ 150 degrees for an hour, they come out nice and dry and less tacky than air dried.

Quote:
When using the Lee sizer, the directions say to lube the bullet prior to sizing. How do you guys keep the lube out of the base where the gas check goes?
Quote:
You don't. I lube them, snap on the gas check, and run them through the sizer.
I would want the gas check on the bullet BEFORE lubing. I don't like the idea of any kind of lube between the bullet shank and the gas check. IF you could guarantee an even coat of LLA, it wouldn't hurt, but the very nature of LLA is far from a uniform coating.

Quote:
If you are going to get a Lubrisizer, get a heater with it. You will need one eventually. Even if the lube says it will work without a heater, it will work better with a heater.
Yeah a heater is useful if you're going to be outside in a shed or garage. Especially with a wax based hard lube. I work inside and use only NRA formula alox/beeswax, it flows well even down to 60 deg, no heater used or needed.
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Old November 8, 2009, 01:51 AM   #21
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No problem then with lube being under the gas check and having it fall off? I'm just wondering because I saw a nice mold I want but it is a GC mold.
The gas checks are crimped on when they pass through the sizer. They aint coming off.



Worrying about them falling off after sizing is like worrying about the wheels coming off your car after the lug nuts have been properly torqued.

I've never had a problem with the bullets made this way. I've loaded 30 cal cast bullets with gas checks in 30 carbine, 30-30, and .308 and all shoot fine with no ill effect. The gas check stays on snug from breech to backstop.

If you don't want to use this method then feel free to spend the money on a lubesizer. I've never owned one and never plan to. Tumble lubing and Lee Size dies for me.
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Old November 8, 2009, 08:32 AM   #22
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One of the bullets I want to cast in the near future is for my 30-30. I currently only own the Lee TL-358-158 SWC mold and a round ball mold for my 50 cal.

Which mold have you had success with making 30-30's? Can you share the load data on here? I currently load the jacketed 150 gr round nose soft point. I'd like a cast bullet of similiar design (round nose) if it is made?
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Old November 8, 2009, 09:59 AM   #23
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I use the Lee 90366 C309-150-F mold with a gas check. Some people get better accuracy with the 90367 C309-160-R mold, but the 150 works fine for me.

USE LOAD DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK.

As for load data I use SR-4759 powder and 17.5 grains of it. Gets you around 1600 fps and nowhere close to MAP.
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Old November 8, 2009, 11:19 AM   #24
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Thanks for the info. I'll be using a differnt powder (I use IMR 3031) with factory bullets. I'll find that in the reloading manual before I start to work up a load.

Have you seen any problems or advantages with a FP over a RP bullet?
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Old November 8, 2009, 12:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
The gas checks are crimped on when they pass through the sizer. They ain't coming off.
Not all gas checks crimp on. The Lyman's are more like brass and simply slip on the shank. Some have even gone as far as gluing those gas checks on to be sure they stay put.

The Hornady gas checks are SUPPOSED to crimp on. Some times they do sometimes they don't. IF the shank on the bullet is exactly the right size and IF the sizer is the right size, the gas check will crimp firmly to the shank. Introducing some lube under that gas check will help this? There's just no way a layer of lube is going to help it stay put.
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