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Old November 5, 2009, 12:38 PM   #1
zorba
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Feds have taken control of NICS!

I live in upstate NY and have had a CCW permit for 10 yrs. So I went and bought a shotgun to do a little small game hunting, asked if they needed to see my pistol permit. He said no, we have to do a NICS background check. Well, I was denied! Now I have to send in an appeal form to find out the reason for the denial. It most likely is due to an arrest when I was 16 but I had it adjudicated to "youthful offender" status and the record was sealed. I'm now almost 60 yrs. old! This issue also came up when I applied for my pistol permit and I sent the judge the legal papers stating the above and my permit was approved.

After doing some research, I discovered that in 05 the feds sent a letter to all FFL's in NYS stating that a valid pistol permit could no longer be used as an alternative to a NICS check.

I called NICS, they told me to send in the appeal form and if I wanted to "speed up" the process I should go to my local sherriff's dept. get printed and send the prints in with the form.

I'm not going to bother going through all that crap, I have a good supply of handguns. But due to this "technical change" I cannot buy any more guns even though I have a valid pistol permit!

I was not aware of this change, and thought it might be useful for others who may be in a similar situation.
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Old November 5, 2009, 01:04 PM   #2
Tom Servo
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Quote:
After doing some research, I discovered that in 05 the feds sent a letter to all FFL's in NYS stating that a valid pistol permit could no longer be used as an alternative to a NICS check.
That's happened a few times. In Georgia, there was a stretch of two years (IIRC), during which their permits did not qualify as a NICS exemption.

NICS is, and always has been, a Federal program. Your CCW is issued by the state. Most states do run a NICS check for priors while processing applications, which is the only overlap.

Without the exemption (which NY doesn't have), all dealers have to run background checks through NICS before transferring a gun. Federal encroachment on state commerce? Sure.

But we're stuck with it.
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Old November 5, 2009, 01:17 PM   #3
Technosavant
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Quote:
I'm not going to bother going through all that crap, I have a good supply of handguns. But due to this "technical change" I cannot buy any more guns even though I have a valid pistol permit!
You aren't the only one who has had to go through the process in order to clear his/her name with NICS. Those I have read about doing so have reported no further problems.

I can understand your frustration, but at the same time, here in MO every single transaction goes through NICS, even for those of us with a CCW permit.

I'd personally just go though the process of appeal, get a PIN from the ATF, and be done with it- that way if you see one you'd like you don't have to think about what might have been.
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Old November 5, 2009, 01:21 PM   #4
Dustin0
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If you fill out the appeal form and get printed you can get a UPIN from Nics. I got delayed but nics. Got the upin and that fixed it. Just my 2 cents.
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Old November 5, 2009, 02:37 PM   #5
zorba
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NICS

What the heck is a NICS "pin" & "upin"? I also don't understand why they need new prints, they already have mine on file from when I got my pistol permit.
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Old November 5, 2009, 02:57 PM   #6
hogdogs
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Zorba, I think your prints are on file with the state not feds... That is why they asked for a copy of them.
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Old November 5, 2009, 04:18 PM   #7
Tom Servo
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What the heck is a NICS "pin" & "upin"? I also don't understand why they need new prints, they already have mine on file from when I got my pistol permit.
The UPIN is the universal personal identification number that's issued once your appeal goes through.

What they'll need is the NTN (transaction number) from the initial form when you bought the gun. Get ahold of the dealer and get that. It should be something like "1G45-AB1."

As far as prints, local law enforcement has them on file from when you got your CCW, but the feds will want a set of their own. Two separate processes.
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Old November 5, 2009, 05:32 PM   #8
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refresh me, what does nics stand for again?
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Old November 5, 2009, 05:37 PM   #9
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NICS = The National Instant Criminal Background Check System

In Texas my CHL still works as a bypass for the NICS check.
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Old November 5, 2009, 05:39 PM   #10
#18indycolts
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gracias hoyt
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Old November 5, 2009, 06:51 PM   #11
zorba
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I have the transaction number, just waiting for the appeal form. I'll probably go through the process to get it fixed.

From what I've read, ATF made NYS stop using pistol permits as a alternative to NICS because NYS was not in compliance with ATF rules & regulations. They gave them a deadline to comply and they didn't.

I"m sure that Bloomberg, the anti-gun mayor of NYC was influential in this change, he's been at war with the fed's for what he calls "lax enforcement".

I thought that when the background check was done for my pistol permit, it went through the FBI too not just the state.
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Last edited by zorba; November 5, 2009 at 06:56 PM.
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Old November 5, 2009, 09:19 PM   #12
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I thought that when the background check was done for my pistol permit, it went through the FBI too not just the state.
It may have, it may not have. Doesn't necessarily mean anything either way.

Just about every CCW permit, as part of the application process, involves a background check at state and federal levels (often complete with prints being run through the FBI). I also have a C&R FFL, so I've even been run through the ATF's version of whatever check they do. Despite that and my MO CCW, I go through NICS on every purchase from a 01 FFL. That's just how it is.
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