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Old January 22, 2016, 08:43 PM   #1
BigJimP
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Broken Trigger Pin - S&W N frame

last week / never had this issue come up in 40 yrs of S&W revolver ownership. Any recommendations on how to fix it - can it be done if I can get the part ?

Looks to me like the pin is press fit into frame / some indications on internet suggest pins are inserted into frame at factory by drilling thru the frame - and then ground flat to the frame - and frame is finished ( but I don't know if that is true ). One side of the pin is held in place by the side plate ( like the 3 other pins in the frame are...hammer pin, rebound pin, cylinder lock pin...

My gun is an N frame .357 mag built in 1981 .....Nickel finish...but it only has about 25,000 rds thru it. I have not talked to S&W yet ...but I will next week.

I have taken gun down to a bare frame ...and no doubt trigger pin/ trigger stud is broken almost right at interior face of the frame - very little to grab onto to try and pull it out / I've tried tapping on frame to see if I can dislodge the pin but no luck / I have not tried to drill the stub that is left and pry it out yet...

Any thoughts are welcome - especially if you have done this repair yourself. Thanks in advance ..
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Old January 22, 2016, 08:55 PM   #2
gyvel
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Is the base of the pin a small circular affair with two small rectangular slots in it? If so, it is threaded into the frame, and is removed with a small spanner screwdriver.

If not, it is press fitted into the frame, and, as you say, ground and finished flush with the outside then blued.

I just did one like that on a Model 38 for a local sheriff. You drive out the old pin, and then either make your own replacement or check with Numrich for a replacement. The pin I made stood proud, so I carefully filed it down until it was about .5 mil proud, then cold blued it. It's nearly invisible, but the revolver was useless without it.

Numrich has the part; Here is the link:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/325920.htm
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Old January 22, 2016, 09:04 PM   #3
BigJimP
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my gun is Nickel....impossible to refinish locally.../ drilling thru the frame would be a last resort.../ I'd send it to S&W instead of considering that option on my own.

No, there are no slots in what is left of it ...so it was probably press fit.

Thanks for the link on the part.
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Old January 22, 2016, 09:06 PM   #4
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S&W has changed the method of installing those pins from screwed in to press fitted; either way the pins (the hammer pin, cylinder stop pin and rebound slide pin are the basically the same except for size) are installed then the outer end polished down to blend with the frame.

They are available and can be replaced but at some sacrifice in appearance unless the frame is reblued at the same time.

Unless it is a matter of time, I would give S&W a call and see if they will do the work. If you hit it lucky, they might send you a shipping ticket and do the job for free even though the gun is long out of warranty.

FWIW, those pins are supported on both ends; one end fits into the frame, the other into the sideplate. Normally, they never break unless the gun has been worked without the sideplate, putting strain on the pin.

Jim
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Old January 22, 2016, 09:12 PM   #5
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Sure, I understand...pin is supported on one side by frame - on other side by side plate. No significant wear on inside of side plate.

I bought the gun used 9 or 10 yrs ago ...but it was virtually new in box../ since I have owned it - the action has not been cycled with side plate off.

It might have just been a faulty pin...but who knows.

No urgency to repair ( I have 20 or so other S&W revolvers k, L and N frame ) but a Nickel model 27 -2 4" has a special place in my heart !! ...but I may have no choice but to send it to S&W and pay whatever they want to fix it - and refinish it if necessary .
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Old January 22, 2016, 09:17 PM   #6
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Like I say, give them a call. I have seen S&W do some remarkable things in the interest of customer service.

Jim
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Old January 22, 2016, 09:21 PM   #7
BigJimP
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Sure, I get it ....

Any opinion on trying to use an "easy out" or other " broken stud removal" --- like they use on engine blocks, etc....
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Old January 22, 2016, 09:24 PM   #8
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A broken trigger pin is not unheard of in S&W revolvers Nor is a broken hammer stud. Several years ago I purchased a new in the box Model 36 A couple of weeks after purchase it ceased to work, broken trigger pin, Hmmm, sent it in to a factory service center in Tucson, got it back in a couple of weeks .OK , these things happen, about a month later the damn hammer stud broke, Now I was geting concerned, more phone calls , once again it went on a trip to Tucson, couple of weeks later got it back. Nothing else happened to the gun in the remaining 3 years I had it, fired a bunch of rounds though it but I never felt close to it, gave it to my oldest son, he thinks it is the cats meow. So yes , it does happen.
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Old January 22, 2016, 10:11 PM   #9
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only has about 25,000 rds thru it.
I'm an old guy with old standards for many things, and noted for being notoriously cheap about some things, but I just can't get "only" and "25,000 rnds" in the same sentence.

Even S&Ws wear out and sometimes just break.

I wouldn't do anything until after you find out what S&W can do for you. Even if you wind up paying for all the work, there's no one better to fix a S&W than S&W.
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Old January 22, 2016, 10:40 PM   #10
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Haha! (raises hand) I will disagree.

Sure, definitely give S&W a chance and see what you see. But superlatives invite challenge, and I would much rather have Hamilton Bowen handling any of my S&W revolvers than the "craftsmen" that populate the Springfield plant here in the year 2016.
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Old January 22, 2016, 11:16 PM   #11
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If you decide to try it yourself, polishing the end of the stud on the frame side and coating with a touch of clear nail polish will likely get you by.

I've seen one hammer stud broken. A friends 686. Took it to a buddy gunsmith. He told me it was a pain to replace, but he did it. Stainless, of course, was easy to blend back in.
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Old January 23, 2016, 10:42 AM   #12
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I appreciate the help...and experience ...I've talked to a lot of revolver shooters ( S&W guys mostly ) and none of them have had a S&W frame stud or pin break...even at 50,000 rds plus...on some guns..( K, L or N frames in .357 or .44 mostly ) ....

Yes, about 25,000 rds thru this 27-2 in the last 10 - 12 yrs or so since I've owned it ....not a lot in my view...( a few hundred a month on average) ...its not a carry gun for me ( those are my 1911's ) but I enjoy putting a few boxes thru it every month.../ and like I said I have K frames model 19's and L frames model 686's to shoot - so not like I don't have some nice guns to shoot...there is just something about a 4" Nickel model 27 that I really like. I ran 6 boxes thru it a few days before it broke with some tactical drills....and had a great time..

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...7&d=1319646515

Still not sure if I'll attempt this repair on my own or not...but I sure won't be drilling thru the frame to do it, if I try it ...so I'm leaning toward sending it to S&W...and at least let them evaluate it.

Some of my other S&W .357's ...so no "rush" to fix it ...vs having it fixed right....( 19's, 66's, a 686 and a blued mod 27) .... I'm a big fan of S&W revolvers and .357 Mag in particular...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...2&d=1259866336

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Old January 23, 2016, 12:25 PM   #13
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rather have Hamilton Bowen handling any of my S&W revolvers than the "craftsmen" that populate the Springfield plant here in the year 2016.
Ok, there is that...

However, there are some things where fixed is fixed and no one can do a better job than "fixed" Or perhaps more accurately, there are some jobs where you cannot tell a better grade of "fixed" from a regular fixed.

The big name high quality smiths have their bad days, too. One of the big name restoration shops I know screwed up a particular gun, TWICE (two different things). IT does happen, sometimes, to everyone.
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Old January 23, 2016, 01:01 PM   #14
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My first Chiefs Special (it wasn't a Model 36 then) broke a hammer stud. That one I fixed myself, just drove out the old one and drove in the new A dab of cold blue and that was that. I never had another problem with that gun, or with the other Model 36's I had later.

Other than leaving those pins unsupported with strain on them, other possibilities are that some are over-hardened and brittle or that breakage is some kind of reaction to dry firing, which I did a lot with that gun.

Jim
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Old January 23, 2016, 02:19 PM   #15
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I had the exact same issue a couple of years ago with my M28-2: I took the sideplate off to replace the rebound slide spring and the trigger pin came with it . S&W will fix the gun for you as they did for me but since my gun (and likely yours too) predates their lifetime warranty and I was not the original owner, I did have to pay for the repairs (though they did send me a shipping label).

What they wound up doing to my revolver was replace the trigger pin, reblue the gun (I was already planning on having it refinished anyway), retiming the revolver, and resetting the barrel-to-cylinder gap. The overall price tag was, IIRC, around $350. Now, that might sound a bit steep, but they did do quite a bit of work, I didn't have a lot of money invested in the revolver to begin with, and this particular revolver has sentimental value to me so I thought it was worth it. Also, the finished product that I got back was excellent.
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Old January 23, 2016, 03:04 PM   #16
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I'm quite curious what a re-blued and refinished Model 28-2 looks like! It seems like the 28 finish (which we have hashed over many many times) is -so- dull and "workmanlike" that any average re-blue or refinish is simply going to be more lustrous and attractive than what a 28 came with.

Not dogging the 28 (44 AMP! ) as I have two of them now and there is a certain solid no-BS kind of look to it, but a 28 with a more bright, new finish is probably a neat looking revolver. Still wouldn't have the curb appeal of the 27, but pictures seem appropriate here.
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Old January 23, 2016, 03:32 PM   #17
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I spent the morning at a local gun show...not any new info / but it reinsfored that I need to talk to S&W next week...and probably ship the gun to them for an estimate if nothing else.

Regardless of where I send it - it has to be fixed ( unless I want to scrap the gun as is )..and I don't really want to do that. As much as it seems sacriligous to drill thru the Nickel finish on this gun ...if they have to, then they have to.

Once I get it fixed ...I'll try and let you know what happened - how it looks. If after its fixed by S&W - if I keep the work order - it'll be in sound mechanical condition / and if the appearance is not what I want ...I can sell it and let the buyer know what was done by giving them the work order. Model 27-2's 4" Nickel in my area are in high demand...and while the appearance will affect the price...we'll just have to see.

My emotional attraction to this one specific revolver is not rational ....and as I've said - I have model 19-1's 4" Nickel / and model 29-2's 8 3/8" Nickel ...and none of them have the same emotional attraction to me -- I like them all - but of all the S&W revolvers to break it had to be this one ... ...but I will get it fixed / and come back and let you guys know what happens.

And my wife told me this morning - quit my whining .../ just go buy another one if I have to... / so that's always an option --- but I only see one on GunBroker right now for $1,500... ....but I'll find another one if I have to...

Thanks for the input...
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Old January 23, 2016, 04:10 PM   #18
Sevens
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My emotional attraction to this one specific revolver is not rational
Does...not...compute!

Emotional attachment is real and it needn't ever be rational nor justified. And you are amongst friends and like-minded people here.

Carry on!
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Old January 23, 2016, 05:50 PM   #19
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$350?
Did he say the repair bill was $350?
Looks like it might be time to buy that drill press you have always wanted.
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Old January 23, 2016, 06:02 PM   #20
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You did read the entire post and all the he got for $350, yes?
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Old January 23, 2016, 06:10 PM   #21
gyvel
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That pin doesn't need to be drilled out. I just did that Model 38 I mentioned about two months ago and that pin drives out from the outside.

If you decide you want to do it yourself:

Find the outline of the pin (it will be very faint), then use a center punch to get it started. Once it starts, then use a regular flat punch to drive it out the rest of the way. It's a very tight press fit, so don't expect it to just slide out.

If you elect to buy the part from Numrich, you will drive the pin back in very carefully so as not to bend the trigger pivot part of it until it seats in the countersunk recess. I used a piece of small tubing the same diameter as the flange. At this point, it will stand proud on the outside and you will need to CAREFULLY file it down to match the contour of the frame and then polish it. If you leave it polished, it will be close to, but not exactly like, the nickel finish.
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Old January 23, 2016, 06:15 PM   #22
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I had this happen on a .357 model 60 about 4 years ago. S&W fixed it and sent it back to me no problem.
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Old January 23, 2016, 06:19 PM   #23
gyvel
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Actually, if you're unsure of what you're doing, sending it back is the best idea.
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Old January 23, 2016, 06:22 PM   #24
g.willikers
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Quote:
You did read the entire post and all the he got for $350, yes?
There was more to read?
I got stuck at $350.
Quote:
That pin doesn't need to be drilled out.
Ok, no drill press.
A big hammer instead?

BigJim, are you going to take your wife up on her offer of replacing it?
Of course, that means you will have to break the news to her about not being able to buy any new shoes all next year.
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Old January 23, 2016, 07:43 PM   #25
BigJimP
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Yes, I will probably buy another one ...( and trust me, she doesn't really care )... I just spent $ 18K remodeling my gun room / reloading room a few months ago ... she's been very generous about my gun hobby --- but if I find a real clean model 27-2 4" Nickel locally, yes - I'll pick it up...

I just spent the rest of my day....taking every other S&W revolver I own...17 of them I think ...taking side plates off, inspecting pins, cleaning - a little lube...a couple of them I stripped to a bare frame....( just as a precaution - after this mishap with the model 27 ). It was a good day !

$ 350 to fix it would be reasonable....

There are no outlines of any pins showing on my model 27 made in 1981...on the finished Nickel side of the gun / and I'm not going to use a punch to drive them out if they were there...the only S&W I have that shows an outline of pins - is an old Victory Model ( pre model 10 ) purchased in 1946 by an uncle ....they were parkerized and most of the parkerizing has worn off - and the pins are visible ....but none of my Nickel model 19's or 29's ..or a blued model 27 ...or stainless model 66's, 686,or 629's...or even an older model 18 blued....show any silhouette ( not even under magnification and 100 watt Hologen bench light ) of any pins on the finished side of the guns...

Last edited by BigJimP; January 23, 2016 at 07:48 PM.
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