The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 19, 2009, 03:07 PM   #1
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,562
S&W PC 460 Recall

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10506

Smith & Wesson has received four (4) reports of barrel failures involving its Performance Center Model 460 revolvers. These barrels were manufactured by an outside supplier. Our investigation has revealed that the quality of steel in some of these barrels did not meet the performance requirements for these firearms and may have contributed to failure of the barrel.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old October 19, 2009, 07:05 PM   #2
3StrikesNC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2007
Location: in a house
Posts: 473
Oh God, not another one!

Scared the crap out me! At least my serial number is not included in the recall, this time.....

Looks like Smith is getting pretty good with the ole' punch mark....

So where does one buy an affordabl, quality firearm these days ?
3StrikesNC is offline  
Old October 20, 2009, 01:17 PM   #3
ChiefMuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2009
Posts: 109
Is it me or does it seem ludicrous that the performance center line of revolvers is outsourced. Sad.
ChiefMuzz is offline  
Old October 20, 2009, 01:24 PM   #4
Maromero
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Location: Outside the continental U
Posts: 752
Quote:
Is it me or does it seem ludicrous that the performance center line of revolvers is outsourced. Sad.

To who?
Maromero is offline  
Old October 20, 2009, 01:38 PM   #5
ChiefMuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2009
Posts: 109
Quote:
These barrels were manufactured by an outside supplier.
I believe that means that pieces of the high end guns in S&W's line are made by "other suppliers". Correct me if I am misunderstanding this or is this a common thing?

Last edited by ChiefMuzz; October 20, 2009 at 05:14 PM.
ChiefMuzz is offline  
Old October 20, 2009, 09:44 PM   #6
springfieldbob
Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2008
Posts: 17
M&P rifles

I have read were M&P 15 rifles are put together at the factory from parts all made else where.
springfieldbob is offline  
Old October 28, 2009, 10:56 AM   #7
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,657
Quote:
I believe that means that pieces of the high end guns in S&W's line are made by "other suppliers".
I have a hunch that the "other supplier" may be Thompson/Center, which was purchased by S&W in 2007. One of the major reasons for the acquisition was reportedly T/C's expertise at making rifle barrels. Since the 460XVR is ballistically a lot like a small rifle, it wouldn't surprise me if S&W farmed out the barrels to T/C.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old October 28, 2009, 11:01 AM   #8
Maromero
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Location: Outside the continental U
Posts: 752
Quote:
I have a hunch that the "other supplier" may be Thompson/Center
I really don't have a clue. Is that good?
Maromero is offline  
Old October 31, 2009, 11:43 AM   #9
Paochow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2000
Location: Midwest
Posts: 277
Probably explains why my PC 460 has been backordered so long...
Paochow is offline  
Old November 8, 2009, 01:05 PM   #10
fprefect
Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2009
Location: Branson, MO
Posts: 66
Outsourced barrels

Quote:
Is it me or does it seem ludicrous that the performance center line of revolvers is outsourced. Sad.
Many exotic metals(and are we even certain it was a metal?) and alloys required special and very expensive equipment to only produce the material, much less machine it. Before knowing more about what kind of material was being used I'm going to hold on to my stones awaiting further evidence and claifications.

F. Prefect
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as being a bad move.....Douglas Adams
fprefect is offline  
Old November 8, 2009, 04:47 PM   #11
ChiefMuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2009
Posts: 109
Quote:
Many exotic metals(and are we even certain it was a metal?) and alloys required special and very expensive equipment to only produce the material, much less machine it. Before knowing more about what kind of material was being used I'm going to hold on to my stones awaiting further evidence and claifications.
If you read the original post it says "the steel used..." So I imagine it isn't some hard to machine exotic metal. No stones thrown here....just curious and shocked at the same time.
ChiefMuzz is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 10:30 AM   #12
fprefect
Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2009
Location: Branson, MO
Posts: 66
S&W 460 Magnum Barrels

Quote:
If you read the original post it says "the steel used..." So I imagine it isn't some hard to machine exotic metal. No stones thrown here....just curious and shocked at the same time
Understood, I obviously failed to read the post thoroughly. I would agree that any company involved in the manufacturing of firearms for as long as S&W "should" understand the properties of almost all types of steel and also find in unusual that a company with such a reputation would farm out the manufacturing of something as critical to an "ultra high perfermance" firearm as it's barrel, although there are some metals out there being referred to as steel that when alloyed with other metals such as titanium do not have the physical properties "normally associated" with steel.

F. Prefect
__________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as being a bad move.....Douglas Adams
fprefect is offline  
Old December 19, 2009, 03:49 PM   #13
Paochow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2000
Location: Midwest
Posts: 277
As per the website, the barrel is a
•Lothar-Walther Custom German Rifle Barrel

On a side note I finally got mine today, although I ended up cancelling my order with my dealer and buying one off gunbroker. Very nice gun, I'm taking it out to shoot tomorrow.
Paochow is offline  
Old December 22, 2009, 01:27 AM   #14
Millbilly
Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2005
Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago
Posts: 47
I have one of the first PC 460 Smiths ......Mine was recalled about 3 years ago and they replaced the barrel.....I have put about 200-300 rounds through mine and it is an awsome shooter.....I have taken 5 deer with it. The most extreme distance was about 175 yards head on....deer went down like he was run over by a truck.....I can't say any thing bad about my 460....The best deer hand gun you can buy.....
Millbilly is offline  
Old December 22, 2009, 07:26 AM   #15
Paochow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2000
Location: Midwest
Posts: 277
I shot my 460 PC on Saturday. Even with just iron sights I was able to easily keep a few cylinders on a 18" circle at 200yds. Can't wait to get a scope on it.
Paochow is offline  
Old December 27, 2009, 11:34 PM   #16
Millbilly
Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2005
Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago
Posts: 47
watch out for flame when you shoot your 460.......

Millbilly is offline  
Old December 28, 2009, 06:57 PM   #17
mwmjones
Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2001
Posts: 77
WOW what about the 500 S&W?

WOW what about the 500 S&W?
mwmjones is offline  
Old December 28, 2009, 08:18 PM   #18
Millbilly
Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2005
Location: Cooks Mills Illinois,,,,Not even close to Chicago
Posts: 47
That flash was with my 460 PC 10 1/2" My friend was taking pics and just got lucky by catching the flash......in the day light.....
Millbilly is offline  
Old January 5, 2010, 04:43 AM   #19
mellowthunder
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 4, 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 7
Have been wavering between FAs .454 Casull or Smiths PC .460 . Gotta admit this pushes me a little more to the 83.
And carguychris, love your quote by 'a man with no name'. I assume you know his name was actually Tuco Ramirez? (Eli Wallach) My favorite was "I like big, fat men like you. When they fall down, they make a lotta noise. And sometimes, they never get up."
mellowthunder is offline  
Old January 17, 2010, 12:09 AM   #20
Danielcan
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: East of Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Posts: 10
blondie said it to tuco
Danielcan is offline  
Old January 17, 2010, 03:47 AM   #21
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 6,976
Quote:
Many exotic metals(and are we even certain it was a metal?) and alloys required special and very expensive equipment to only produce the material, much less machine it. Before knowing more about what kind of material was being used I'm going to hold on to my stones awaiting further evidence and claifications.
Quote:
If you read the original post it says "the steel used..." So I imagine it isn't some hard to machine exotic metal.
Quote:
Understood, I obviously failed to read the post thoroughly. I would agree that any company involved in the manufacturing of firearms for as long as S&W "should" understand the properties of almost all types of steel and also find in unusual that a company with such a reputation would farm out the manufacturing of something as critical to an "ultra high perfermance" firearm as it's barrel, although there are some metals out there being referred to as steel that when alloyed with other metals such as titanium do not have the physical properties "normally associated" with steel.
Quote:
As per the website, the barrel is a
•Lothar-Walther Custom German Rifle Barrel
People lie. Companies lie. "Quality of Steel" could mean "quality of workmanship", "quality of machining", or "we accidentally put .44 caliber barrels on them".

You never know... It may have been as simple as a dimensional error. Either Walther, or S&W could be the guilty party. Sometimes it is an amazingly "innocent" mistake that causes a huge problem.

Now, where did I put that decimal point?....

Perhaps it could even be something along the lines of a manufacturing change that failed to consider previously calculated figures. Maybe the original models had a tighter ball end in the cylinder, and a loose barrel; but the newer models have a loose ball end, and a tighter barrel; while the newest models went back to the old design. With certain loads, the 'mid-production' ends up being a bad combination...
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."

Last edited by FrankenMauser; January 17, 2010 at 03:54 AM.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 20, 2010, 11:06 AM   #22
woodguru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 14, 2010
Location: Placerville, Ca
Posts: 589
Outsourcing, there were a few responses that seemed to want to make an automatic assumption that outsourcing is a downgrade.

Remington specified and ordered barrels from Shilen for it's 504 .22's, I (after much teeth pulling) got Remington to supply me with some serial number ranges that had these barrels and had a distributor go through over a hundred rifles to find me one. Remingtom oursourced barrels to attain high standards for a very nicely made rifle. The 504's I've had are tack drivers.

Perhaps these outsourced barrels were an attempt to improve quality, not loosen it.
__________________
Fiction is harder to write than the truth, fiction has to make sense, the truth can be unbelievable.
woodguru is offline  
Old September 27, 2010, 07:49 PM   #23
TenRing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Posts: 415
Outsourcing is supposed to allow a company to provide a higher quality product at lower cost by taking advantage of the capabilities of other companies. That way, they don't have to spend time and money to develop everything themselves and they can focus on what they do best. It's not necessarily a bad thing if done correctly.
TenRing is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12814 seconds with 7 queries