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Old October 19, 2009, 10:07 AM   #1
FrontSight
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Serious safety question...what would you guys do?

So I use a guide a lot for waterfowl hunting, since I don't have a dog or a boat, nor time to scout etc etc.

He has lots of repeat cutomers, many who I have hunted with repeatedly. Most of them are great guys...

One of these clients (who is one of these great guys & liked by everyone) had been in a bad accident, and has chronic pain, for which pharmaceutical drugs will only help to a certain point, and I found out that he ocassionally will smoke a doobey to help alleviate the pain when the prescribed drugs don't work.

Now, I always felt that what people do in their own privacy, as long as they are not hurting anyone else, is their own business and I have no place getting involved.

BUT, he offerred for us to share one before our last hunt, to which I of course graciously declined.

I could tell he was not intoxicated, and so I didn't mind hunting with him. If he was high then of course I would have slammed the brakes on the hunt before it even started.

Now, the question becomes: What do I do with this information? Do I keep my mouth shut, do I speak to the guy & have him promise me that he would never go hunting while high , or do I let the guide know that he should keep his eye on this client, because he could potentially go on a hunt while intoxicated & wind up killing someone??

Now, I don't want to be a rat, but I'm really leaning towards informing the guide, because this could be a matter of life and death, and I would be just as responsible for anything that happens if I kept my mout shut, right?

What are your thoughts, guys?
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Old October 19, 2009, 10:37 AM   #2
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I think I would cease hunting with that person. High risk behavior is not my cup o' tea and going hunting with someone who might be stoned is bad mojo.
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Old October 19, 2009, 10:48 AM   #3
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I would also inform the guide. At face value, I would not turn him. Even if he was doing this stuff legally, I would not hunt with him. Just my measure.


Be Safe !!
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Old October 19, 2009, 10:49 AM   #4
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I would let the guide know simply due to the safety aspect.

No need to make a federal case out of it, just pass on the info and let the guide handle it.
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Old October 19, 2009, 10:53 AM   #5
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1. Shut up about the grass.

2. Tell the guide you won't shoot with the guy again.

AFS
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Old October 19, 2009, 10:58 AM   #6
Edward429451
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What safety aspect? Do you guys think that if he's hit a doobey all of a sudden he'll be freaking out. I do not think so. If it were so, we would have already heard the buzz from the anti gunners "Man smokes dooby and slaughters nine" or "Man smokes dooby and shoots self in foot" or some such.

I would keep the info to yourself and understand that you may be over reacting just a wee bit...

Cannabis is a fantastic muscle relaxer and works faster than pills. Cut the man some slack, he's already in pain. He doesn't need ostracized for trying to manage his pain some.
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Old October 19, 2009, 11:16 AM   #7
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I would feel the same way if he had 2 beers at lunch. No, I don't think he would be drunk, but could be impaired slightly which might lead to a momentary lapse.
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Old October 19, 2009, 11:23 AM   #8
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Edward429451, I don't think he will start freaking out or anything, and I doubt anyone else here thinks that either.

What I am concerned about, and I think I speak for everyone else here as well, is the real danger that comes from hunting while being intoxicated.

Have you ever hunted 6 deep from a boat, in choppy seas, with a wet deck, pass shooting at ducks flying at 60 miles per hour? Very easy to have an accident, even when you are sober.

The dangers I am concerned about are things like not keeping his finger off the trigger, falling down more easily with the boat rocking and therefore possibly dropping his shotgun or having it go off unintentionally, or him knocking into others and causing their guns to go off unintentionally - if that sounds far fetched then you have never hunted in the conditions I stated above, or even in a just john boat on a calm lake where everyone jumps up to shoot over the blind frame; people fall down all the time in those situations even when they are sober.

And then there are even lesser, non dangerous acts that are still issues of concern like shooting at non-permitted species because they can't properly identify the species since they are high, shooting at game while the boat is still under power, etc etc. Those will get everyone a visit from any game wardens around, as well as giving all hunters a bad reputation from anyone witnessing these acts if they know the law.

And as I said, I have no problem with what people do in their own free time as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, but when they put people in danger then it's another story. I feel he can manage his pain however he wants 99.99% of the time, but when he holding a loaded shotgun on a slippery deck surrounded by others also holding loaded shotguns on that same slippery deck and we're all actively shooting, then maybe the rest of us do have a say in it?
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Last edited by FrontSight; October 19, 2009 at 11:33 AM.
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Old October 19, 2009, 11:25 AM   #9
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what he is doing is illegal. Possession / use.

you're decision to be with him whether hunting or not poses some
risk.
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Old October 19, 2009, 11:30 AM   #10
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I don't care what he does, but I wouldn't have been gracious (to him) if he offered it to me. I would also ask the guide to hunt with others. I would not tell the guide anything.
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Old October 19, 2009, 11:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
I would not tell the guide anything.
But what if you care about the guide's safety as well, and the safety of the others that you know this person will hunt with in the future with this guide?

The guide also has his son work as the first mate on the boat. How could I live with myself if something happened to this man's son and I knew that this one client is a potential danger?
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Old October 19, 2009, 12:01 PM   #12
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A jon boat may pose a little additional risk to someone who's high. You didn't mention that in first post so I had walking around with rifles in my head. Being in diff boat may not help you if he falls with his SG towards you! Interesting scenario. I don't like getting people in trouble but I do like being safe.

On the other hand...they are all a potential danger even if sober in the scenario you described! The pot may or may not make him more clumsy. Hmmm.

Last edited by Edward429451; October 20, 2009 at 06:37 AM.
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Old October 19, 2009, 12:06 PM   #13
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ive hunted with alot of people that smoke before hunting and even during the hunt and have done this for over 15 years and so far havent seen any one of them be unsafe at all. think you might be making more of this than what it is but if it really concerns you, guess you can mention it to the guide but im sure hes guided stoned hunters before and likely never even knew it.
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Old October 19, 2009, 12:20 PM   #14
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...not worth the effort...
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Old October 19, 2009, 03:21 PM   #15
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BEFORE he lights up, why not just tell the guy, "Hey, I don't want to hunt with you when you've been smoking Mary Jane. You're just not as safe as I'd like." No need to tell the guide or anyone else until AFTER you've dealt with Mr. Toker.

Marijuana has a soporific effect. It not only degrades physical coordination, it reduces the ability to concentrate.

Beer is a known quantity, insofar as the 99% probable effects of any one beer. Marijuana varies all over the place as to potency. A guy might think he'll be okay after only a puff or two, but there's some stuff out there that's definitely "moreso".

I remember some goodie from Bolinas, one time...
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Old October 19, 2009, 05:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
What are your thoughts guys?
From the sounds of your response to Edwards 'thoughts', its seems as though you`ve made your mind up. I pheasant hunted with a cancer patient(now expired) that often smoked on an outing. The surroundings and style of hunting was much more organized than the style of hunting your doing. I never once felt endangered by him. I have felt endangered on a few hunts I`ve been on when a few of the guys would be drinking, to the point where I've left. If I didn`t want to hunt with the guy I`d get him alone and tell him. It may be possible your guide and others knows more than you think.
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Old October 19, 2009, 06:05 PM   #17
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What I'm seeing here is those who have not and those that have and perhaps still are. I'm not saying where I've been and undstand that what is said in this forum, stays in this forum. For those who don't know it, Pot is what they call a gateway drug. It opens the door to other drugs and that is a fact. It won't make you do crazy stuff but is indicative of a "Character Flaw". You have been made aware of his habit and now you are obligated to give the guide the same coutesy. Mention it and let him decide what to do about it if anything. You then need to make up your own mind. I find it difficult to buy into a need to smoke while on these hunts. To say otherwise is blowing smoke up my ..... !!
By the way, we are have character flaws; just some worse than others.


Be Safe !!!

Last edited by Pahoo; October 19, 2009 at 06:26 PM.
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Old October 19, 2009, 06:07 PM   #18
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I have no idea that it's true, but I have no reason to think it's not. My understanding is that if party "A" has dope on Party "B"s boat, party "B" may well lose his boat if the boat is boarded and the dope is found even if Party "B" had no knowledge of it.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think the guide might like to know if that's correct.
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Old October 19, 2009, 06:33 PM   #19
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I can't say much about lighting up but as far as medical drugs go when someone has pain the drug would go to the pain first instead of like a normal person where the drug would make one high instead. So what I am saying is someone that is in pain and taking drug's the drug may not make the person feel any high at all but rather pain relief only.
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Old October 19, 2009, 06:45 PM   #20
SigP6Carry
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I would just like to point out a bit of ignorance that's being spouted off here:
people have different tolerances to different substances. I'm not going to cite myself as a professional on Marijuana use, tolerance and effects (as I have no long term exposure myself), but I've been in classes with people who smoke up and I was never wise to it until they offered to smoke me up before class with them sometimes.

Marijuana comes in many different forms and has many different effects on different people. It's possible that he was smoking medicinal marijuana, which I understand is a pretty clean and low-level narcotic, which probably wouldn't send him on a messed up trip or anything. As far as the drinking comment goes: you've gotta be pretty lightweight to have 2 beers at lunch effect you enough to change your behavior.

I've in fact been put on pain killers for weird reasons (a persistent, dry cough) that did nothing but numb my throat and prevent me from feeling less obvious nuances on my body (thus preventing my lungs from coughing, as my "cough sensors" wouldn't feel the need to cough). It's different for different people.

In this specific example, though, it sounds like he was offering it to others for recreational use. This is an interesting fact in this specific case as it is rhetorical suggests that this specific person is a "pot-head."

Think about this: how many people on this board are on various pain-killers, sleeping pills, anti-depressants, ADD/ADHD medication, etc. Any and all drugs and alcohol can potentially cause a lapse of consciousness/perception, though some more than others and it varies from person to person.

If I were the OP, I would report him to the game warden in the area based solely on his trying to "pass it around." If he were simply smoking a little to help alleviate pain, more power to him.

Also, Cigarettes and Caffeine are both stimulants that alter your consciousness slightly. Think about that.
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Old October 19, 2009, 07:53 PM   #21
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You beat me to it Thomme. Just where do we draw the line. The person I refered to in my post would smoke after breakfast or lunch to keep his food down and settle his stomach. He`d also smoke when he left the hospital after a chemo treatment. Sometimes he`d just take a couple hits,sometime`s more. Never saw him smoke even half a joint. The pills(can`t remember there name) the Dr. gave him for this didn`t work. He told his Dr. what he was doing and the Dr`s reply was "the pills work for some people,some they don`t. I can't recommend you to smoke pot to keep your food down, its not yet legal in this state, but if its working for you...". I guarantee you this guys on tape in the hospital parking lot firing up on the way to the car after a treatment. He wasn`t a pot-head. Never knew him to smoke before his cancer. I do know when he started taking his treatments, not being able to keep anything down, he went from about 220lbs. to about 165lbs. After starting smoking, he gained about 10lbs. before he finally died. Watching him go through his cancer ordeal as well as some research on the topic has changed my mind on pot when used for medicinal purposes. To date there`s 14 states its legal in and many high profile medical people that are starting to see its benefit in different areas. Sooo, again where do we draw the line: not gonna hunt with someone that just quit smoking that morning and is so jumpy and wants to kill everything in sight, not gonna hunt with someone who`s got a bad cold and takes some alcohol/codiene based cough med.,or on an anti-depressant. Next time you go to the doctor make sure you read the side-effects of the script your given, so many are mind-altering in some form. This guy that offered to get his fellow hunters high was wrong in doing so, no excusing that. I`d diffenitely would want to know if anyone in my hunting party was taking Viagra before we went affield.
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Old October 19, 2009, 08:50 PM   #22
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Now waitaminute marijuana is a gatewaydrug, fact remember? What you said blows that out of the water. It is possible for people to use very small amounts and not be on crack within a month too. I've known a few of those people. (Edited to add, I was being facetious here, and my point is that MJ doesnt have to be a gateway drug, and hasnt been for some folks I've known. Please don't misunderstand me! Thanks.)

I gotta admit...he shouldn't have offered it around. But smoking pot can be as much the ritual of it than the high. Hippies and their pot parties! Even though he may be "legit' now or somewhat...

Last edited by Edward429451; October 20, 2009 at 06:39 AM.
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Old October 19, 2009, 09:12 PM   #23
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you can argue that anything is a "gateway" drug. There's no chemical evidence that once you smoke pot you HAVE to smoke crack and shoot up heroin and take LSD and other drugs. Same way that anti-gun folks spin gun stories to try and get guns banned is the same way the anti-drug folks make every little pill and puff seem like it's going to end your life.
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Old October 19, 2009, 09:17 PM   #24
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Edward, at risk of a big thread veer and not promoting either,in my lifetime, I`ve seen the use of alcohol be 'the gateway' to alot more harmful things than marijuana ever thought of doing. Guess our experiences in life form the attitudes we have today.
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Old October 19, 2009, 09:40 PM   #25
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Wow, lots of interesting thoughts have come about from my question, and I think everyone for their insight.

Now, I just want to make it clear that this guy is as likeable as anyone you've ever met in your life. He's no "bad guy, drug addict, pusher, pot-head, lowlife creep" or anything like that in my mind at all. He has an honest chronic pain condition, from an accident on the job, and the pot truly does work for him in medicinal ways that prescription drugs can't. Not to mention that it also costs him a crapload less $$...he's spending over $7k a year in prescription drugs. As far as offering me some, hey, I see it as him just being hospitable, and without any malice at all.

So I hope that clears up my feelings of his pot use and offering.

My single concern, honestly, is would his intoxication be a safety concern, and if so, does the guide have a right to know. It would not be in a "ratting the guy out", nor would anyone be informing law enforcement or anything of that nature.

Just a "Hey man, whatever you do in your private time is your business, but you just can't get high before you hunt, ok?"
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