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Old October 16, 2009, 11:39 PM   #1
wyobohunter
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45 Colt bird shot loads?

Anybody load these? I've never loaded any type of shotshells so details would be appreciated. I'd like loads that are good for Grouse/Ptarmigan at 5-15 yds.
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Old October 17, 2009, 12:00 AM   #2
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CCI makes them in every other caliber try them.
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Old October 17, 2009, 02:36 AM   #3
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Yes, I have some of the tailor made CCI stuff in 45 Colt. I'm looking for info from people who roll thier own.
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Old October 17, 2009, 07:56 AM   #4
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I've loaded them in 357 and 44. Just a cardboard wad over the powder, fill with shot, and crimp in another wad over the shot. Some folks use gas checks instead of cardboard. I suppose that would make them more robust to rough handling, but I do so few of them I didn't bother. They work for close range, but even with the increased shot space in a 45, I don't think you'll have a useful pattern at 15 yards. Easy to try though, and 5 yards, plus a little, bit should be possible.
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Old October 17, 2009, 09:24 AM   #5
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Get Bowen to build you a paradox.
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Old October 17, 2009, 01:09 PM   #6
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I have a set of the RCBS 45 ACP shotshell dies. I have made 45ACP and 44 Mag shotshells using the dies. I use 410 shotcups cut down and a gas check over the shot crimped in place. It should be no problem to load some for 45 Colt using the same dies. And yes, they work very well on rabbits or game birds out to about 12-15 yds. Come visit me and we'll roll some up.
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Old October 17, 2009, 04:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Get Bowen to build you a paradox.
please elaborate.

Quote:
they work very well on rabbits or game birds out to about 12-15 yds.
What shot size are you using? What powder (same powder you use for regular bullets?). Do you weigh the shot and use a powder charge you'd use for a bullet that weighs the same? What gun/s? Thanks
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Old October 17, 2009, 08:08 PM   #8
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I am very interested in making a few of my own as well. This may just be a really really good idea for me. HMMMMMMM....
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Old October 17, 2009, 08:10 PM   #9
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You may luck out, but most rifled barrel guns I've fired shot loads in have pretty poor patterns past about 15 feet. The rifling tends to spread the pattern pretty fast, and they are donut shaped (have a hole in the middle). Even 45-70's, with a larger shot load, tends to lose a useful pattern past about 15 feet. I save shot loads for snake use to about 10 feet.

Very light round ball loads in rifles and pistols work well for small game and grouse. I've used round balls in 45-70, 44 mag, 30-30 and 348. They all give much more usable range than shot loads. 40 yards isnt out of the question, farther for the light/medium cast loads I mentioned in the other thread ("...unconventional loads")The older Speer manual had some round ball 45 Colt loads shown. I believe they used .454" round balls sold for muzzle loaders.

I posted some links in the "unconventional loads" thread.

Last edited by Malamute; October 17, 2009 at 08:32 PM.
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Old October 17, 2009, 08:23 PM   #10
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I buy the empty CCI shot capsules and load them with #11 or 12 shot
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Old October 17, 2009, 10:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
...please elaborate.
The paradox is a British invention where a long gun (can't call it a rifle or a shotgun) has a smooth bore through most of its length but the last couple inches are rifled. They are typically standard shotshell chamberings and can be loaded with either a single, bore-size projectile or a shot charge. The short section of rifling is just enough to stabilize a single projectile but not so much as to disperse a shot pattern. Thus the name, paradox. Hamilton Bowen, being an ardent student of old school gunology, builds them out of single action revolvers. Same concept.
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Old October 17, 2009, 11:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
What shot size are you using? What powder (same powder you use for regular bullets?). Do you weigh the shot and use a powder charge you'd use for a bullet that weighs the same? What gun/s? Thanks
I use 7-1/2 shot over 8.7 gr Unique powder for both the 45 ACP and 44 Mag. I throw the powder from a RCBS powder measure, insert the shot cup,measure the shot with a Lee dipper, and place the gas check and crimp it in place. I have fired the 45 shotshells out of my Combat Commander, M1917, and a friend's 1911, fired 44 shotshells out of my Redhawk. The slow rate of twist isn't too bad on the pattern out to 12 yds, beyond that it really starts to open up.
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Old October 18, 2009, 01:29 AM   #13
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Here's a trick....

......I think I got it from the late George C. Nonte's book, "Modern Handloading", if I remember correctly: For .45 Colt, use a .444 Marlin case cut to cylinder length; use an appropriate powder charge, over-powder wad, shot charge, over-shot disc, epoxy in place. For .44 magnum or .44 Special you can use either .30-40 Krag or .303 British brass for the same results. It works pretty well at close range.
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Old October 18, 2009, 06:51 AM   #14
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I cut open a few 12ga shells to get some #8 shot to load, mosty 38 spcl. You don't want to try to push the shot to fast, a lighter charge of a relatively fast powder will do. I used data from Speer, & their shot capsuls.
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Old October 18, 2009, 07:24 AM   #15
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i form maximum brass to fit full length in 357 mag cyl & 303 in 44 mag.

DENSE patterns ain`t the word!!!
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Old October 18, 2009, 10:29 PM   #16
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It has been my experience that you can really help your pattern density by going with the smallest shot possible. I found a few boxes of 12 ga shells loaded with #12 and I cut these open to rob the shot. A full charge has something like 1000+ pellets.

Load a mild powder charge for a bullet weight equivalent to your shot charge, top it with a thin wad, load the shot and cap it with another thin wad, I generally crimp in the top wad and coat it with good old elmers glue to keep it from falling apart in my pocket. As far as I can tell the dried glue does zero damage to my guns.

These work great at snake distances, i.e. less than 10 ft. but the small shot does decelerate very quickly, and penetration past 15-20 ft is just about zilch. For that you might want to go with some heavier shot. It all depends on what you're looking for. Short range fun and snake control, #12 is the gas, but for small game hunting, I think I'd stick with a shotgun.

If I remember correctly, one of the big time gunwriters has an article posted on the internet about loading shotshells for pistols, though I can't remember if it was John Taffin or Mike Venturino, or one of the others. A google search should find it, and it's worth reading before you load any of these.
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Old October 19, 2009, 05:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Short range fun and snake control, #12 is the gas,
There aren't any snakes in Alaska.
Quote:
but for small game hunting, I think I'd stick with a shotgun.
These a basically going to be a source of emergency food. I'll throw a few in the survival kit if I'm hiking/camping with the pistol. I pattern tested the CCI loads yesterday. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=648570 The patterned very well when shot from my Super Redhawk Alaskan 454. Maybe the rifling doesn't mess up the pattern too much because the bbl is so short. Target areas were about 8" x 4" (about the size of a grouse).

From 15 yds there were 4 pellets in the target area
From 10 yds there were 8 pellets in the target area
From 5 yds there were too many pellets to bother counting in the target area

Because these worked out so well I think I'll just stick to the tailor made stuff as I don't plan on shooting many of them. I consider 15 yards to be plenty useable for killing a Spruce Grouse... When spooked they usually just fly up in a nearby tree and can be easily taken.
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Old October 19, 2009, 07:19 AM   #18
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Will 4 #9's take down a grouse?
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Old October 19, 2009, 07:52 AM   #19
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http://www.castbullet.com/reload/44shot.htm
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Old October 19, 2009, 01:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Will 4 #9's take down a grouse?
Don't know yet... I intend to find out before I seriously rely on them as a survival tool. If not I'll have to roll my own.
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Old October 19, 2009, 01:43 PM   #21
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http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=682652

I wouldn't mess around with cardboard wads, .410 wads, or gas checks. These Speer capsules just plain work! The box they come in has loading data right on the outside.

I've loaded these in .357 and 44 mag. They're fun to shoot clays thrown in one hand while the revolver is in the other hand, meaning they're pretty close, not more than10-15 yds. I never tried to take game with them, it's illegal here in WI. , to use a centerfire handgun to shoot small game. As a survival item, I don't doubt they would work, I'd use nothing smaller than 7½ shot.
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Old October 19, 2009, 04:30 PM   #22
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So all you need is - Shot capsule, shot, powder, primer and case... No wad or anything else? Sounds simple enough if that's true.
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Old October 19, 2009, 06:49 PM   #23
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I've used the shot capsules made by Speer. They work well but seem a bit expensive (I'm pretty cheap) I think the pattern benefits from the shot having no contact with the rifling. I realize the capsule is spinning, but I believe the shot holds together much better than shot under (and over) a cardboard disk. I plan to experiment a little with cardboard when I have a chance.
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Old October 20, 2009, 12:33 PM   #24
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So all you need is - Shot capsule, shot, powder, primer and case... No wad or anything else? Sounds simple enough if that's true.
Yes, for reloading the Speer shot capsules, that's all you need. Just be careful when you crimp them.
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Old October 20, 2009, 01:33 PM   #25
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The CCI tailor made shotshells I bought do not appear to be crimped... If they aren't crimping then why would I need to? That is if I stick with a very light powder charge. Speer doesn't give a start and max charge for these. Just a load with several different powders.


Oops, I take that back... They do have a what looks like a taper crimp. I'll have to be carefull So does this mean I need to buy a taper crimp die just for these?
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