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Old October 13, 2009, 07:00 PM   #1
Yellowfin
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Why No Dove Hunting in NY?

Does anyone know much about the situation in New York State as to how there isn't any dove hunting? I'm told that doves are listed as a songbird so thus aren't huntable unless they get officially changed to game birds by legislative action. Has this been discussed much or attempted? They're scratching their heads trying to come up with ways to get more youth hunters so why not that? It's probably the second most popular form of hunting there is at all and is PERFECT for introducing new and youth hunters. Plus it adds another additional use for land so more income for landowners, which in turn generates more revenue for the state also in increased license fees and ammo sales. LOTS of people here shoot clays so it's using an existing known base of people which could get even bigger still.

I brought this up at a DEC meeting and they told me it's a great idea that they like but nobody's been talking about it much so it hasn't been asked for. What are your thoughts on this?
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Last edited by Yellowfin; October 13, 2009 at 07:11 PM.
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Old October 14, 2009, 08:08 AM   #2
JustKev55
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Doves

They're classified as a songbird in Maine too. I've never hunted them but remember my father hunting them in Texas. I remember them being cooked but don't recall what they tasted like.
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Old October 15, 2009, 01:11 PM   #3
FrontSight
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Liberals.

And you are right, it needs an act of the State Legislature to change it. DEC wants it opened. There is a group that has been trying, I forget who tho...
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Old October 15, 2009, 01:23 PM   #4
dahermit
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They are not legal to hunt in Michigan either. A couple of years ago it was put on the ballot and anti-hunting people produced a vigorous campaign to get people to vote against hunting them. The theme of the campaign was: "There is no good reason to hunt doves." The pro-hunting side did not do a sufficient job (saw frequent commercials against hunting, few giving reasons for hunting), of countering the emotional and illogical points presented by the anti-people. So, no hunting of doves.

"They are too small to eat." But then so are shrimp.
"They do not do significant damage to crops". They eat crops and do damage, the degree to which is undermined.
"I want to continue seeing them on my bird feeder." They will still be there, hunting does not eliminate them completely.
"They are not a significant part of peoples diets ." They do however, provide variety in a diet.
"They are not a traditional game bird." The hunting of doves is the most common of all hunting.
"I do not want them killed." They are killed anyway. They are hunted in every state in their flyway as they migrate south.
"Hunting doves endangers non-targeted species of birds." Dove hunters can tell the difference between doves and other species because of how they fly and how they look in flight. States that allow dove hunting do not have a problem with non-target species (song bird), kills.
"There is not good reason to shoot doves." People from Michigan travel to other states and spend money that would be spent in Michigan if we had a dove season.

Last edited by dahermit; October 15, 2009 at 01:42 PM.
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Old October 15, 2009, 01:29 PM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
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I don't know about the rest of the state but Central NY is not exactly infested with doves either. I'm not sure it would be worth your time even if there was a season, at least in this area.
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Old October 15, 2009, 07:22 PM   #6
armsmaster270
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I think doves are migratory birds and the seasons controlled by the Fed not the state not that that helps the no hunt states. I love the taste of Dove Casserole.
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Old October 16, 2009, 09:21 AM   #7
FrontSight
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armsmaster270: They are defniitely controlled by the states as well...this is a response I received a few years ago from a Leader in the NY D.E.C. Game Bird Unit (Font made red by me, and please PM me if anyone would like his contact info):

Quote:
Hi - your question was forwarded to me for a reply. The simple answer is that the legal definition of game birds in New York based on the Environmental Conservation Law (section 11-0103), does not include the family of birds that doves belong to (Columbidae).

Go to http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/me...MMONQUERY=LAWS, where you should find:

(1) "Migratory game birds" means the Anatidae or waterfowl, commonly
known as geese, brant, swans and river and sea ducks; the Rallidae,
commonly known as rails, American coots, mud hens and gallinules; the
Limicolae or shorebirds, commonly known as woodcock, snipe, plover,
surfbirds, sandpipers, tattlers and curlews; the Corvidae, commonly
known as jays, crows and magpies.

To change this would require an act by the Legislature, not DEC. So if you wish to pursue the establishment of a dove hunting season in NY, you should contact a member of the NY State Senate or Assembly to make them aware of your views.

Thanks for asking.
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Old October 16, 2009, 12:04 PM   #8
Yellowfin
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Peetza, the number of doves could be increased if they were huntable because people would have incentive to plant food crops like sunflower and sesame which they like to eat. Currently no such incentive exists so it isn't being done. As for the problem of liberals, liberalism is no excuse for anything let alone something as idiotic as being against hunting.
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Old October 20, 2009, 10:49 AM   #9
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Peetza, the number of doves could be increased if they were huntable because people would have incentive to plant food crops like sunflower and sesame which they like to eat.
Do you think dove hunting would be enough incentive to try to increase the dove population?

What I mean is that it seems like a catch-22 to me. Even if it were legal, there aren't any doves. Without doves there's not much interest in dove hunting. Without much interest there's no incentive to make habitat for more doves. Without more habitat there aren't more doves. Without more doves there's not much interest in dove hunting.....

See what I mean?

The legality issue also seems "catch-22ish". It's illegal to hunt doves. There aren't many doves. Without doves to hunt what is the incentive to make it legal? Being that it's illegal, what's the incentive to make habitat for more doves?....

So, you have to get past the first catch-22 to even get started on the second one. The only way past the legal catch-22 is to get past the population catch-22.... but the only way past the population catch-22 is likely to be getting past the legal catch-22....

It's like a double case of catch-22.... catch-44?
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; October 20, 2009 at 10:56 AM.
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