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Old October 10, 2009, 08:10 PM   #1
JohnKSa
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Question in GenDis on BHP with shoulder stock case...

A guy posted in General Discussion about some guns left to him and his sister. One of them is a BHP with a wooden case/shoulder stock.

It would be nice if someone could chime in and discuss any legal issues he needs to address as a result.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=379770
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Old October 10, 2009, 08:28 PM   #2
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Federally, there aren't any.
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Old October 10, 2009, 09:02 PM   #3
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Ok, this is something I've never researched very carefully. Why doesn't the gun constitute an SBR and require the NFA hoops since it comes with a shoulder stock? Is it because it's old enough to qualify as a curio/collectible? Or is it because it's an inheritance?
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Old October 10, 2009, 09:10 PM   #4
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It's exempted by the BATFE from the 1934NFA by name, specifically. That's the only reason.
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Old October 10, 2009, 09:13 PM   #5
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Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like he's got a very nice collectible pistol to help him remember his dad.
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Old October 10, 2009, 09:16 PM   #6
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Indeed. Those Inglis BHPs are VERY accurate, too - absurdly so for a 9x19.
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Old October 11, 2009, 11:56 PM   #7
dogtown tom
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Quote:
JohnKSa: A guy posted in General Discussion about some guns left to him and his sister. One of them is a BHP with a wooden case/shoulder stock.

It would be nice if someone could chime in and discuss any legal issues he needs to address as a result.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=379770
Without more pictures of the HP AND the stock you can't say for sure.
Some (very few) Hi Powers are exempt from the NFA:
From ATF Curios & Relics List
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/1...7/section3.pdf
Quote:
The Bureau has determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design and other characteristics, the following firearms are primarily collector's items and are not likely to be used as weapons and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

Further, the Bureau has determined that such firearms are also curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 478.11. Thus, licensed collectors may acquire, hold, or dispose to them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 478. They are still "firearms" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.


Belgian, Pre-war mfd. Hi Power pistols, in cal. 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500
meters, slotted for shoulder stock, having S/Ns of less than 47,000 without letter prefixes
or suffixes and accompanied by original Belgian mfd. detachable wooden flat board type
shoulder stocks.

Browning Hi power pistols, 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder
stock, having S/Ns less than T200,000 etched vertically on the right side of slide, barrel, or
frame and bearing crest of Emirates of Muscat & Oman, or mirror image of such crest,
accompanied by original detachable wooden flat board shoulder stocks.

Canadian, Inglis No. 1, Chinese Contract, Hi Power pistols, cal. 9mm parabellum, having a
tangent rear sight adjustable from 50 to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder stock, and having
the letters C in the S/N
A prewar HP with an Inglis stock (whether original or not) is NOT EXEMPT from the NFA. Similarily, an Inglis Hi Power with a prewar "flatboard" stock is NOT EXEMPT from the NFA.


Quote:
PTK: Federally, there aren't any.
Uh, nope, only the National Firearms Act. It's no biggie though

Quote:
JohnKSa: Ok, this is something I've never researched very carefully. Why doesn't the gun constitute an SBR and require the NFA hoops since it comes with a shoulder stock? Is it because it's old enough to qualify as a curio/collectible? Or is it because it's an inheritance?
If it is listed in the ATF C&R List AND has the correct stock it is exempt from NFA. A HP listed in the C&R List BUT with an incorrect stock is not exempt, and would require a tax stamp for a SBR.

Quote:
PTK Indeed. Those Inglis BHPs are VERY accurate, too - absurdly so for a 9x19.
The Hi Power in the photo is NOT an Inglis. The rollmark is that of an FN manufactured Hi Power.

I'll post this to both threads.






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Old October 12, 2009, 12:01 AM   #8
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Am I to understand that the slotted Browning Hi-Powers that were sold in the not too distant past as "Capitan" models when coupled with correct FN board stocks are, in fact, NOT legal per BATFE?
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Old October 12, 2009, 02:22 AM   #9
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Seriously, though - the description of "IN" the stock, it's a holster stock. It's the correct stock for the gun.

I really, really shouldn't keep calling any BHP with a stock an "Inglis", though. Good catch.

Last edited by Johnny Guest; October 12, 2009 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Inappropriate language
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Old October 12, 2009, 09:04 AM   #10
dogtown tom
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Quote:
gyvel: Am I to understand that the slotted Browning Hi-Powers that were sold in the not too distant past as "Capitan" models when coupled with correct FN board stocks are, in fact, NOT legal per BATFE?
If they aren't on the ATF Curio & Relic List or the firearm does not have a tax stamp for an SBR it is not legal.

The actual "Capitan" models (not all tangent sighted HP's are Capitans) imported by Browning and marked "Made in Belgium, Assembled in Portugal" did not have a stock slot. Most "T" & "C" series (mid '60's - mid '70's) also did not have a stock slot cut on their tangent sighted models.

The tangent sighted FN Hi Powers w/ slot imported by Vector Arms w/ "Browning S.A." on the right side of the slide would not be legal without a SBR tax stamp. These are often seen with a large black, FN box instead of the small gray, Browning box.

Quote:
PTK:...Seriously, though - the description of "IN" the stock, it's a holster stock. It's the correct stock for the gun.
Again you are giving advice on a stock you have not seen. By "IN" the stock you mean the stock itself is the holster- that would be the Inglis stock. That is not an Inglis HP. "Flatboard" stocks for this period featured a leather holster riveted to the exterior of the stock. Again, your advice is dangerous.

Until the OP puts up a photo of the stock and additional pictures of the HP we won't know if he is in violation.




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Last edited by Johnny Guest; October 12, 2009 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Remove quote which included inappropriate language
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Old October 12, 2009, 10:12 AM   #11
gyvel
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Quote:
The actual "Capitan" models (not all tangent sighted HP's are Capitans) imported by Browning and marked "Made in Belgium, Assembled in Portugal" did not have a stock slot. Most "T" & "C" series (mid '60's - mid '70's) also did not have a stock slot cut on their tangent sighted models.
I'm going to have to get a hold of a friend of mine who has a slotted/tangent so-called "Capitan" that, if I recall (yes, I have examined it) was a "C" series.

It looked "factory" to me in that the slot was perfect, and blued.

Unfortunately, he went out and purchased a flat stock for it.

Thanks for the info. I have been under a misconception about modern Hi-Powers all these years.
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Old October 12, 2009, 10:29 AM   #12
dogtown tom
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Gyvel,

Be very careful, this alleged "friend" is most likely commiting dastardly, evil acts of mayhem and violence with that stocked Hi Power.

I'm pretty sure that a stocked Hi Power is used in more crimes than a stocked Mauser C96.
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Old October 12, 2009, 09:37 PM   #13
gyvel
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Dogtown Tom, the friend is not alleged, he is real (as in: it's NOT me), but when I contacted him he told me he sold it about 6 months ago, so it's someone else's problem, apparently. I did, however, give him the "head's up" on what you told me (and what I read after thoroughly reviewing the C&R list), so I'm hoping he will contact the purchaser and let him know.

The worst thing I own is a Chinese contract Inglis with a Canadian holster stock, so I think I'm OK. (Well, I do have a an Austrian marked Mauser with matching Austrian marked stock, too, but I haven't perpetrated any acts of violent mayhem with it yet)

I have other Class III stuff as well, and I don't take any stupid risks by having, shall we say, less than kosher things around; Not worth it.
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