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Old October 10, 2009, 05:55 PM   #1
motorpotor
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Help me ID these.

Im new here, and posted on other forums and I was directed here.
My dad passed in June and he left my sister and I his stash of guns. Im not sure the ages of them, but sort of wanted to see if anyone had any more info on these. My sis and I are supposed to divvy them up and I get first pick...



Mauser HSC "01.32532" 9mm Short.


Browning 9mm HiPower "8031" made in Herstal Belgium. Not sure exactly what model it is, but the gun does attach to its wooden case. Had a hand written receipt from his brother who he bought it from in 1955 for $35


Walther P38/P1 9mm "241494" "1494" "2/64" has the orginal box that says it wasa West German Police Trade-In.

For the Playas Club



Top-Remington Model 34
Winchester Model 94-30 WCF-"1249238"
Not sure what the 2nd from the bottom is.
Browning Bar-22 Semi-Auto rifle.
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Old October 10, 2009, 07:59 PM   #2
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The rifle that is second from the bottom is a Remington Rolling Block carbine. If it is original, or not a modern copy, it is a collector's item. How many choices do you have? If you have two, take the rolling block and the Browning High Power.
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Old October 10, 2009, 08:06 PM   #3
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The Browning Hi-Power is pretty nice. I think it would be my pick from the pistols. When you say it attaches to its wooden case, are you saying that the case attaches to the gun and becomes a shoulder stock? If so, there may be some legalities you need to explore...
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Old October 10, 2009, 08:30 PM   #4
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Federally, the Inglis (BHP) with stock/holster is fine, as long as it's not a reproduction.
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Old October 10, 2009, 08:52 PM   #5
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Have to agree, the HP and Rolling Block are the two I'd like. I'd gladly triple your money on those!
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Old October 10, 2009, 09:58 PM   #6
motorpotor
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Well the Rolling Block was mine to begin with, I just found the only markings on it. right where the metal meets the top of the stock. It says, "E Remington and Sons, Ilion, NY, USA. Pat May 3rd 1864, May 7th, June 11th, Nov 12th, Dec 24th 1872, Dec 31st 1872, Sept 9th 1873, Jan 12th, March 18th 1874."

I get 1st pick, because when he was still alive he gave my sister a Baretta of somesort. Yea that Browning attaches and becomes rifle like. I dont know where any of the paperwork is for these either. Also, I thought Browning was an American company, why was this model made in Belgium?

Last edited by motorpotor; October 10, 2009 at 10:17 PM.
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Old October 10, 2009, 10:05 PM   #7
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Browning is primarily an importer distributor, not a manufacturer. Browning firearms have been made by a number of manufacturers over the years, FN in Belgium is one and I believe that at one time their sporting rifles were made in Japan.
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Old October 11, 2009, 08:52 AM   #8
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In addition, the HP was initially designed by J.M. Browning, but was made in Belgium, as were many of his creations.
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Old October 11, 2009, 09:27 AM   #9
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Can't tell ya bout the long guns, but definitely take the Browning.
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Old October 11, 2009, 10:22 AM   #10
motorpotor
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Does the Walther have any historical significance?
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Old October 11, 2009, 10:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Does the Walther have any historical significance?
P1s were made for post-war West German police and military units. They are not the same as WW2 P-38 pistols.
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Old October 11, 2009, 10:54 AM   #12
motorpotor
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Figured it might have, being its being from the Cold War era, oh well
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Old October 11, 2009, 11:58 PM   #13
dogtown tom
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cross posted from "NFA Guns & Gear" forum

Quote:
JohnKSa: A guy posted in General Discussion about some guns left to him and his sister. One of them is a BHP with a wooden case/shoulder stock.

It would be nice if someone could chime in and discuss any legal issues he needs to address as a result.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=379770
Without more pictures of the HP AND the stock you can't say for sure.
Some (very few) Hi Powers are exempt from the NFA:
From ATF Curios & Relics List
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/1...7/section3.pdf
Quote:
The Bureau has determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design and other characteristics, the following firearms are primarily collector's items and are not likely to be used as weapons and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

Further, the Bureau has determined that such firearms are also curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 478.11. Thus, licensed collectors may acquire, hold, or dispose to them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 478. They are still "firearms" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.


Belgian, Pre-war mfd. Hi Power pistols, in cal. 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500
meters, slotted for shoulder stock, having S/Ns of less than 47,000 without letter prefixes
or suffixes and accompanied by original Belgian mfd. detachable wooden flat board type
shoulder stocks.

Browning Hi power pistols, 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder
stock, having S/Ns less than T200,000 etched vertically on the right side of slide, barrel, or
frame and bearing crest of Emirates of Muscat & Oman, or mirror image of such crest,
accompanied by original detachable wooden flat board shoulder stocks.

Canadian, Inglis No. 1, Chinese Contract, Hi Power pistols, cal. 9mm parabellum, having a
tangent rear sight adjustable from 50 to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder stock, and having
the letters C in the S/N
A prewar HP with an Inglis stock (whether original or not) is NOT EXEMPT from the NFA. Similarily, an Inglis Hi Power with a prewar "flatboard" stock is NOT EXEMPT from the NFA.


Quote:
PTK: Federally, there aren't any.
Uh, nope, only the National Firearms Act. It's no biggie though

Quote:
JohnKSa: Ok, this is something I've never researched very carefully. Why doesn't the gun constitute an SBR and require the NFA hoops since it comes with a shoulder stock? Is it because it's old enough to qualify as a curio/collectible? Or is it because it's an inheritance?
If it is listed in the ATF C&R List AND has the correct stock it is exempt from NFA. A HP listed in the C&R List BUT with an incorrect stock is not exempt, and would require a tax stamp for a SBR.

Quote:
PTK Indeed. Those Inglis BHPs are VERY accurate, too - absurdly so for a 9x19.
The Hi Power in the photo is NOT an Inglis. The rollmark is that of an FN manufactured Hi Power.

I'll post this to both threads.
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Old October 12, 2009, 08:03 AM   #14
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That Browning Hi-Power looks pretty nice. Do you know what year it is? Have you looked up the seriel number?
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Old October 12, 2009, 09:30 AM   #15
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I'm drooling over the walther.
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Old October 12, 2009, 11:41 AM   #16
orangello
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Hey Potor! I vote keep the Mauser & the Browning. I also like the Remington & Winchester rifles; i bet they could provide some woodlands fun for you.

No pics of the sister?
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Old October 12, 2009, 01:01 PM   #17
motorpotor
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Skans- the Browning is Pre-1955, and I know this because my dad bought it off his brother then. Where do I go to look up serial numbers? ALl the numbers I found on the guns, i posted with the pics.

Orange my sister is preggy, and no pics.

I might entertain offers on the pieces
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Old October 12, 2009, 01:40 PM   #18
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I borrowed this from a thread on Hipowertalk.com:
_____________________________________________
Date chart based on serial numbers, from Browning:

Date Historic Information Serial Number Info
1954-57 The Hi-Power 9mm pistol was introduced in 1954. 70000-80,000
Accurate production figures are unavailable.
1958 In 1958 Browning kept better records of the Hi-Power pistol, so the serial number ranges are more accurate 80001-85276
1959 85268-89687
1960 89688-93027
1961 93028-109145
1962 109146-113548
1963 113549-115822
1964 In 1964 the product code for the Hi-Power was the letter "T" 115823-T136-568
1965 T136569-T146372
1966 T146373-T173285
1967 T173286-T213999
1968 T214000-T258000
1969-75 In 1969 Browning started using two digits for the date of manufacture which was followed by a four digit code that identified the type of Auto-5:
C=Hi-Power
This was then followed by the serial number beginning with 1000.
Example: 69C1000 = A 1969 Hi-Power pistol with a serial number of 1000. T258001-261000
C=Hi-Power
1976-1997 In 1975 Browning standardized its serial number identification which it followed until 1998.
1. Hi-Power Type 2W5=40 S&W
245=9mm
2. Date of Manufacture
is a two digit code Z=1
Y=2
X=3
W=4
V=5
T=6
R=7
P=8
N=9
M=0
3. Serial Number
beginning with 01001
at the start of each year.



Serial
Number Example:
245RT01001

This would be a 9mm Hi-Power pistol, manufactured in 1976 with the serial number 01001.

1998 In 1998 Browning redid the standardization of its serial number identifications to work with its new data base program, Oracle.
1. Hi-Power Type 510=Hi-Power
2. Date of Manufacture
is a two digit code Z=1
Y=2
X=3
W=4
V=5
T=6
R=7
P=8
N=9
M=0
3. Serial Number
beginning with 01001
at the start of each year.



Serial
Number Example:
510NN01001

This would be a 9mm Hi-Power pistol, manufactured in 1999 with the serial number 01001.
_______________________________________

WWII Hi-Powers:

Also, in 2005, Jungle Work posted the following on this forum concerning WWII Hi-Powers:

The High Power pistol was designed by John Moses Browning and manufactured by Fabrique Nationale (FN) in Herstal, Belgium. The Belgians were first armed forces to adopt the High Power as an official sidearm, they did this in 1935. Between 1935 and the German capture of the FN factory on May 29, 1940 contracts were filled for the armed forces of several countries including Belgium, China, Peru, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Sweden and France.

From the plant's seizure by the Germans in May of 1940 to its liberation in September of 1944, over 319,000 High Powers pistols were manufactured for the German Wehrmacht. The first several thousand pistols were made up from captured parts and had a high polish finish, a shoulder stock slot cut into the rear grip strap and tangent rear sight. To speed production, the Germans eliminated the shoulder stock slot and then the tangent sight at about serial number 145000. As production continued, the quality of finish was reduced to dull blue over a progressively less polished metal. The Germans used three Waffenenamt stamps on High Power pistols:

Eagle over WaA613
Eagle over WaA103
Eagle over WaA140.

Yearly production of High Power pistols under German occupation was as follows:

1940..................... 8,500
1941..................... 65,700
1942..................... 80,600
1943..................... 101,200
1944..................... 63,000

Nazi Proofed High Power pistols are in the $300 to $700 range depending on condition (again, posted in 2005).

Hope this helps.
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Old October 12, 2009, 02:55 PM   #19
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They ALL look very nice to me! But I'd never be able to afford any of them Good bunch of collectors there.
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Old October 12, 2009, 05:00 PM   #20
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What was heard coming from my office as I scrolled through the pics:
"Whoa, cool Mauser."
"Cool Browning."
"Cool Walther."
I have a limited vocabulary, but recognize them all as neat guns. I already have a Hi-Power, so would probably take the P1, or whatever the postwar P38 is called.
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Old October 12, 2009, 05:58 PM   #21
motorpotor
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So is "8031" a valid serial number? Its the only number I could find on the browning
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Old October 12, 2009, 07:36 PM   #22
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Go for the BHP, that thing is awesome!
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Old October 12, 2009, 09:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
motorpotor: So is "8031" a valid serial number? Its the only number I could find on the browning
Yes, it's a genuine serial number. It just predates the Hi Powers imported by Browning Arms.

Browning Arms didn't begin importing the Hi Power until about 1954 (see the above chart). Fabrique Nationale (FN) began producing the Hi Power in 1935, so the HP had a twenty year production before being imported into the US by Browning.

Dating any Hi Power is never exact. Browning says the last "T" series HP was T258000 in 1968, yet numerous examples exist with higher numbers. FN would also start a contract run with any serial number the buyer wanted.
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Old October 12, 2009, 09:16 PM   #24
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That HiPower is incredible.
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Old October 13, 2009, 03:48 AM   #25
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I'm with most here, the BHO and the Rolling Block.
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