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Old October 9, 2009, 07:48 AM   #1
roy reali
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Deer with Dogs

In the state I now live in, dogs are forbidden to be used in deer hunting. In fact, the only big game that you can have dogs to assist you is mountain lions. In California, you can take a dog deer hunting, but you can't use them to course them.

There is a guy I met in California that takes his shorthair deer hunting. He gets a deer every year. Before you say big deal, remember, California deer hunters have a ten-percent success rate, the lowest in the country. In Germany, shorthairs are expected to be able to help hunt not only for birds, but large and small game too. They have to have big game hunting ability to be certified. How they help, how they are used, I don't know.

Does anyone here use dogs to deer hunt?

Does your state even allow it?

How would a dog help in the pursuit of deer?
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Old October 9, 2009, 08:30 AM   #2
lizziedog1
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Hunting with dogs is as natural as it gets. The first human hunters used dogs. In fact without dogs, our forebearers wouldn't have advanced their diets from berries and grubs to venison. Without that nutrional advancement, we would probably still be in caves.

The only big game I have ever hunted with dogs is wild boar. I did it once, let me tell you it was one of the most exciting hunts I ever did. Anyone that tells you that dogs give humans an unfair advantage have tried it.
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Old October 9, 2009, 08:36 AM   #3
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Deer dog hunting is big time in florida but it is traditional chase and shoot.
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Old October 9, 2009, 08:58 AM   #4
roy reali
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re:Hogdogs

Quote:
Deer dog hunting is big time in florida but it is traditional chase and shoot.
How does it work? I mean, do the dogs drive the deer to the hunters? Are the dogs trained for this?

Thanks, I am curious.
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Old October 9, 2009, 09:52 AM   #5
Art Eatman
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Ruark describes deer hunting with dogs in the Carolinas in one of hiis stories in "The Old Man and the Boy". McKinlay Kantor's "The Voice of Bugle Ann" is a literary classic. And there are another gazillion books and short stories about all manner of hunts with dogs...
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Old October 9, 2009, 10:04 AM   #6
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Basically the dogs take a track and eventually they will push the deer by one hunter or another. Several hunters set up around the area the dogs are working. You listen for the baying dogs and as they approach you keep your eyes open looking for the deer. dogs further back equals a slower moving deer so many guys want a dog pack that isn't super fast runners.
Training the dog to take deer tracks and ignore all other animals is done thru a process we call "trash breaking" and many use the same shocker training system that upland bird hunters use.

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Old October 9, 2009, 10:35 AM   #7
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I personally don't understand why folks do it other than it takes the work out of stalking the game yourself.... Enjoying the woods without a whining howling dog next to you...

Like shooting a shotgun to shoot a bird (you shoot 40or whatever # bullets at the same time), I couldn't use a dog to hunt because it would feel like cheating....

But those of you that do, and like it, good by you!
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Old October 9, 2009, 10:43 AM   #8
roy reali
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re:Koolminx

Quote:
Like shooting a shotgun to shoot a bird (you shoot 40or whatever # bullets at the same time), I couldn't use a dog to hunt because it would feel like cheating....
Do you use a club or pointy stick to take your game? Do you use a slingshot for flying birds? A rifle could be considered cheating too.
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Old October 9, 2009, 10:50 AM   #9
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I get a kick out of people that claim using dogs for hunting is cheating. They then pull out the latest wonder-magnum rifle topped with an 30-powered scope and proceed to drop an animal hundreds of yards away. Some of these guys even erect a blind and hide in it or bait an area to attract the game.

Cheating began when man started to wear clothes and shoes, invented gunpowder, and devolped the internal combustion engine.
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Old October 9, 2009, 11:34 AM   #10
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Having first started big-game hunting out West on wide-open public land (where dogs are not allowed), I thought it was against the ethics to use them. Having moved to FL and seeing the thick, impassable undergrowth they use dogs to push the deer, I would not have an issue using them. Personally, I consider a stand in a tree sitting next to some food plot to be more unethical than using dogs to drive them. Out West, if you planted some form of food plot next to a watering hole the DOW is going to be confiscating your truck, gun and handing you a big fine while taking you to jail.

Different parts of the country have different ways to make it work with their quarry and their environment
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Old October 9, 2009, 11:37 AM   #11
koolminx
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No Roy, I take all my bird game with a Bow and Arrow! I'm no cheater...

I have a NEF shotgun but don't use it for game, only paper and skeet...




K
P.S. I've never shot at a deer from farther away than 50 yards. I have never had the need to.
P.S.P.S. I NEVER lure or feed any game I hunt. If you feed it it's NOT hunting. It's shooting.
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Old October 9, 2009, 11:38 AM   #12
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No dog hunting in Washington either, except for birds and some cougar hunts.

Dogs can be used on deer in the same way that they are used on birds. Hunters will walk right by most game without even seeing it. The dog alerts the hunter to where the deer is laid up giving the hunter a chance to see the deer.
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Old October 9, 2009, 11:43 AM   #13
koolminx
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If you're not paying attention to everything around you right down to the caterpillars and the squirrels, then you're out hiking, not hunting... It's OK to miss some game now and then, I mean everyone needs to stop & smell the roses now and then, but I hunt for food, and, self worth as a provider, it just makes sense to me to do it alone.

I have seen the Louisiana and Florida woods and a Dog certainly makes sense! But I'd rather go it alone...


K
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Old October 9, 2009, 12:53 PM   #14
rantingredneck
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NC is split right down the middle on this issue. Eastern part of the state and some parts of the Central Region (basically north of I-85) you can use dogs to chase deer. The Western Region and southern end of the Central region is off limits to deer dogging.

I have owned deer dogs and hunted with them in the past. It's definitely a more 'social' type of hunting where you need more than a few people and need to work together to cut off the deer and/or the dogs.

You are talking short range shooting, primarily with shotguns and buckshot, in thick woods/brush or along the edges of same. I've killed quite a few deer with a Beagle, Blue Tick or Walker right on his heels.

As more large tracts of land are being split and subdivided dog hunting is falling out of favor. Neighbors don't like it, understandably so, when the deer and dogs get by the standers and run all over their property. Dog hunters and non-dog hunters get into disputes as the two hunting styles clash (and I've found myself on both sides of that one).

For me personally, it isn't worth the expense or hassle anymore, but I do respect the tradition and support others in hunting with dogs where legal.
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Old October 9, 2009, 01:32 PM   #15
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Some years back, I hunted in Alabama and at that time, they allowed running deer with dogs. Before setting one foot in Alabama, I too thought that it was cheating. The geography changed my mind and decided that perhaps the state's DNR, knew what they were doing. One morning while in my stand, heard and then saw a deer run past me like a bat out of you know where. Shortly followed by a dog and you could tell he was on the trail. Whistled at him and he paid me no mind. Came back to the Midwest with a different perspective on this subject. Take my word for it, it's definitely not cheating.



Be Safe !!!
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Old October 9, 2009, 03:30 PM   #16
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Im originally from southeastern North Carolina, the deer-dogging capital of the US, as far as I know. I grew up hunting deer with dogs, but gave it up when I became an adult and realised that its a lazy, shameful way to hunt. I've got more respect for myself, and for the deer, than to do that again.

Pratice varies from club to club, but in a typical deer/dog hunt, the hunter sits on the tailgate of his pickup, drinking coffee until the deer run across the road. he'll lift his shotgun, fire a load or two of buckshot, and then hope he can catch the dogs before the tear the deer up too much.

I hunted with many different clubs growing up, and Most years I saw the radiator of a truck get shot out. Even saw my father hit the dirt once when buckshot came wizzing over his head from an over-zealous dog hunter with buck feever. Disagree with me if you like, but my personal feeling is that hunting deer with hounds should be banned.

Deer that have been run by dogs all day are tough, and their meat has a very gamey, somewhat chemical taste to it.

And the big, smart bucks, they know how to evade the dogs.
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Old October 9, 2009, 06:50 PM   #17
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So......tell us how you really feel......

I agree there are clubs out there like that, but like anything else it can be and is done better than that.

One of the reasons, other than the ones from my earlier post, that I don't hunt with dogs anymore is that it's too much work chasing after and maintaining the dogs.
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Old October 9, 2009, 08:15 PM   #18
SavageSniper
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+1 on Rednecks response. I have no problem hunting deer with dogs, done it alot growing up. I have not hunted that way in 20 years though. I prefer to hunt alone, just me and Mother Nature. Dog hunting is more of social thing. Several people, bunch of dogs, alot of stories. It is alot of fun. Now when it comes to hog hunting, dogs make all the differance in the world. Any anti dog hunter just has never hunted hogs with dogs.
By the way. They say that NASCAR's orgins come from bootleggers. Nope, they come from folks hunting deer with dogs. If you ever have, then you know what I mean!
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Old October 9, 2009, 08:24 PM   #19
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Hunting deer with dogs is not allowed where I live, but on the other end of the state where I deer hunt it is allowed. I do not use dogs and mainly stand hunt. If a person desires to use dogs then its ok with me. There has been a few times when deer dogs on the joining property has brought some deer through by my stand.
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Old October 10, 2009, 04:34 AM   #20
butta9999
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I hunt for Sambar deer a lot on the hounds in Victoria. The season is nearly at a close. There are restrictions on breed of dog, all dogs have to be registered and have tracking collars on them.

Dogs are only permitted in Most State forests, but not allowed in and National Park, Nature Resurve or Sanctuary.

Here is a pic of some of the dogs on my last hunt..





These are some of the dogs retrieved on the next day. I think we still had about 20 odd to gather in. 5 deer were shot weekend including a 28 inch stag.
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Old October 10, 2009, 04:48 AM   #21
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I've never killed a deer that wasn't being run by dogs. Well, I take that back. I killed one that a dog driver jumped. I just happened to kill him before the dogs got on him.

Deer hunting with dogs is no different than rabbit hunting with dogs. There are slobs that hunt deer with dogs. There are slobs that still or stand hunt. There are good, hardworking hunters that do all three.

As for the mechanics. Depends on how many people you have. If you have a big crowd, you could surround a big piece of land. If you only have a few, you break "the drive" up into smaller sections.

We had numbered stands and the stand numbers would go in a hat before each drive. You took the stand you drew out. Usually someone experienced would be assigned the last stand on the line to make sure everyone dropped off at the right place.

At a set time, the "drivers" would let the dogs go and "drive" them through the woods. Just like rabbit hunting. When the dogs jumped, they were on their own. The drivers would either go back to the trucks, or just stay where they were.

The dogs would push the deer toward the standers (You'd be amazed how often a deer would be able to slip by unseen.) where hopefully someone would get a shot.

Many hands make for a light drag out and a quick skinning and butchering.

The hunter who killed the deer got his choice (usually a hindquarter) and the head and hide (if wanted). The rest was divided and numbered and lots drawn. If there were more hunters than pieces of meat blanks went in. The idea being that everyone took home something, or at least had the same chance.

Dog owners and volunteers spent long hours rounding up the dogs.

Lazy? I'm sure it could be. If a person was lazy in the first place. However done right a dog hunt is as much work as I ever wanted to do. Dog drivers walk their legs off. So do most of the standers. They're up early and stay late. Dogs have to be taken care of all year. The club had work days every month. Like anything else, a handful of people did most of the work, but those who did were the real backbone of the club. They cut firing lanes, marked stands, filled in mudholes, built dog pens and dog boxes, worked on the clubhouse (we had a rather nice clubhouse) and grounds, and helped the landowners around the farm/property.

Deer hunting with dogs is no better or worse than any other type of hunting. It's different. That's all.

Oh and the dogs don't usually push the deer hard. I've only seen the dogs "nipping at his heels" a couple of times and they were all on the initial jump. A deer can shift gears and leave the fastest hunting dogs behind in short order. Sometimes the deer seem to stop and wait for the dogs to catch up.

You don't want a really fast dog. Fast dogs push the deer out of the woods. Slower ones push them just fast enough to keep them moving. You want the deer to just run around in the piece of woods to offer the most opportunities for a shot. Walkers are probably the most popular dogs, but beagles are/were gaining favor for just this reason. (I never saw a bluetick, or a black and tan I'd have given ten cents for. That'll start an argument. )

But let me tell you something. There is NOTHING more exciting than hearing the tailgate drop and the dogs hit just as soon as they come out of the box. Man that will make the hair on your neck STAND up. You just KNOW they're heading right toward YOU.
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Old October 10, 2009, 05:29 AM   #22
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Deer hunting with dogs in the state of Ohio is a big no-no. Matters-a-fact, most DNR will tell you if your hunting and see a dog running deer 'drop it'. I think that attitude started around mid to late 60`s when the deer pop. was bad(to say the least) and DNR was trying to build our herd. We`ve got a great deer pop. today. It is legal to track a 'hit' deer with a dog. I believe the dog has to stay leashed. If someone`s state allows hunting with dogs its not cheating IMO, when in Rome... Sometimes attitudes towards different styles of hunting can be compared to religion, my ways right and everyone else is going to hell. People are raised hunting a certain way and anyone that varies from their way is wrong. Usually that type of person has never hunted to far from their own back door. Different states allow different style`s of hunting for different reason`s. Never deer hunted with dogs but if its legal where your at 'go for it'.
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Old October 10, 2009, 06:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
Walkers are probably the most popular dogs, but beagles are/were gaining favor for just this reason. (I never saw a bluetick, or a black and tan I'd have given ten cents for. That'll start an argument. )
No argument here. I've hunted with blue ticks and black and tans and walkers. My dogs were always beagles though. For exactly the reasons you cited. Those long legged dogs put the deer in high gear. I'd rather them stick to a comfortable trot with a short legged little beagle on their track.

There's also something really cool about a happy dog who knows he's done exactly what you wanted him to do. Back about 5 years ago, I had an old beagle that had hunted many a season. We turned him and 3 others out one morning in a big thicket on the property we hunt. The deer and dogs separated and took off in opposite directions. One deer was brought down, but there was a pack of 3 dogs trailing a herd of does in circles in the thicket.

A buck broke out through the standers and headed for the highway. I heard my dog heading after him and slung my gun and took off at a trot up an old logging road to cut them off. I got to a cut off point just ahead of the deer and tucked in behind a cedar tree. The deer came trotting up and stopped and looked back at the dog a couple hundred yards behind him. He started to trot again and I rolled him in the logging road. My dog came running up to me wagging his tail and just happy. He then sat his fat butt down right beside my gun while I dealt with the deer.

I lost him about 3 years ago to old age. He was my last hunting dog. Too many nights out looking for him when he got past the standers.
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Old October 10, 2009, 02:55 PM   #24
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RRedneck, my neighbor had a pack of Walkers and he hunted down at Rougemont in your neck of the woods. I think it is too developed now, at least where he had permission.
He just liked messing with the dogs. Kinda like the guy that brings his Beagles over to rabbit hunt on our lease after deer season doesn't even take a gun.
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Old October 10, 2009, 03:01 PM   #25
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Here is a song by a true country boy. It really shares the Deer Doggin' experience for those who do not get to see it. I hope those who have run dogs will get the warm fuzzy deep down feeling. For those that haven't tried it, I hope ya'll get a little peek at what we seek...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG48FaYX2mo
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