The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 13, 2009, 12:30 PM   #1
westy
Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2008
Posts: 20
Saiga 12 for hunting

I am going to buy a saiga 12 and would like to use it for hunting. Which one should I look for because there are diffrent barrel lengths and choke options. Around here we hunt hog and small deer at close range, and also duck and Quail. I have other hunting rifles but I am going to buy a saiga 12 no matter what and would like to get a model that I can get the most use out of for hunting. Thank's in advance for any help.
westy is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 04:47 PM   #2
LordofWar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2009
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 646
Not a gun for hunting.
LordofWar is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 04:56 PM   #3
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,774
This has been covered before. I will summarize:
You CAN kill almost anything with a Saiga-12.
A Saiga 12 is not designed to kill something on 4 legs or with two legs and wings.
Much like hunting with an AK derivative, if you have one already go for it, buying one to hunt specifically not a great idea.

If you are set on doing it the longest barrels is obviously the best for hunting(I think that will be about 20"). I don't think any have interchangeable chokes, which is pretty important for a shotgun you want to hunt upland, hog and deer. I think you would almost have to get them installed.

It CAN work, but other things WIL work better for the price.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 07:30 PM   #4
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
Quote:
Not a gun for hunting.
I don't get people who make blanket statement like that. They make great deer and turkey guns (with a polychoke) especially with a krebs sight for the longer sight radius.

Quote:
If you are set on doing it the longest barrels is obviously the best for hunting(I think that will be about 20"). I don't think any have interchangeable chokes, which is pretty important for a shotgun you want to hunt upland, hog and deer.
It's better not to talk about things that maybe you are not so up to date on. They have chokes available and are threaded for chokes. They have a 19" and 24" model and like I said above they are great for "aiming" type hunting but not so much for "pointing" type hunting.
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 07:36 PM   #5
roy reali
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2005
Posts: 3,248
re:lipadj46

I agree with your statement about blanket statements here. There was a study done a few years ago. It concluded that the more a person brags and acts like a know-it-all, the less he actually does know. We seem to have a lot of them here.
roy reali is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 07:46 PM   #6
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
There may be an issue with a magazine-fed gun and hunting with regards to the legality of the gun in question and its capacity
oneounceload is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 08:14 PM   #7
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
They make 2 round magazines for the Saiga 12 so you can use them for migratory bird hunting (people do). you can always plug a 5 round magazine to 2 shells.
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 08:17 PM   #8
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
I would imagine that as long as you did not have a large capacity magazine with you or in your vehicle, then you would be OK
oneounceload is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 08:25 PM   #9
6x6pinz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 152
Yeah I hunt all the time with my S12 and S410. Great guns for this. I have the 24" barrel with a polychoke. The biggest reason I like mine for duck hunting is we don't get to hunt in blinds around here much. Most of our duck hunting involves some walking or jumping water tanks and some is in the nasty salt cedar. The conditions are hard on a gun. The finish on the Saiga does not seem to be effected by these conditions and it always works. Yes we have to plug the mags down for migratory birds but it is very easy. I have some nice hi end shotguns but I would never take them on some of the hunts I take Saiga.
__________________
Friends don't let friends shoot Glocks
6x6pinz is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 08:33 PM   #10
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,774
Are there ones with polychoke on Saigas website, or are you actually seeing them available?
It appears a 19" and 22" with choke are produced. Maybe more, but 24' looks to be the longest barrel in general. I have never seen them advertised as available and at 24" that is still a short than normally recommended barrel for duck or quail, which OP indicated he wants to use the gun for. Ever place around me seems to have the 18 and 20 without chokes. I have never looked for one with any hunting in mind, but I am pretty sure none of the gun stores or online retailers whose stock I browse has these threaded for choke versions available. Maybe you can special order them. Maybe Saiga is like some other manufacturers and has models listed that are not really available. Maybe I just browsed over them as I wasn't interested.

I could hunt deer with a BT-99 w/ 30+" barrel and it would probably work fine, but it doesn't make much sense when a mossberg $500 w/ two barrels is available for $250 at Dick's sporting goods.

You can do it. It will work. Probably not the best choice.

If you have the money laying around get one for other things and use it for hunting also, but get it for the other reasons. I sure wish I had one to put use for HD(what a crazy amount of firepower that is with 400+ #4 pellets in one mag), but not my first choice for anything where my mag capacity is limited anyways. A lot of people do not like detachable mags on hunting rifles either. I imagine that would transfer to shotguns also.

Look into detachable mags being legal to hunt in your state. I definitely heard someone say this at one point while talking about pheasant hunting with a Saiga in Ohio(about Ohio). I never looked into it as I could care less, but something to look into if you want to hunt with it.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread

Last edited by johnwilliamson062; May 13, 2009 at 08:50 PM.
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old May 13, 2009, 09:07 PM   #11
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,774
lets break this down:

20 round capacity-probably can't use anyways.

detachable mag-many don't like in hunting guns

kalishnakov action-even if you spend a couple weeks at deer camp you are going to have plenty of opportunities to clean your gun and are not likely going to send more than 200 rounds through it in between cleanings. Even my 11-87(whose action I think is prone to malfunctions and build-up) keeps chugging for 250 very dirty shells flawlessly.

Barel length-less than perfect for many hunting situations.

I fail to see what about a Saiga makes it good for hunting.

For HD, I am with you all the way.
For "homeland defense" or whatever you want to call it, probably the best shotgun available, certainly very close to the top.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 04:02 AM   #12
Death from Afar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2004
Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 1,610
I tried one rabbit shooting once ( we have a lot of rabbits here, a lot). The box mag sucked. Big time. You could not shoot one, load one, and keep the gun topped up. If you have a lot of targets, its not ideal.
__________________
"Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".
Death from Afar is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 04:46 AM   #13
6x6pinz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 152
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/SAI-12IZ-107.aspx

All the saiga barrels come with thread protectors. The Polychoke just screws on in their place. Also available are several factory chokes that also screw on the barrels. I don't use mine or any other shotgun for large game so no real input on their use for this. I do know that this past year I had to work on three of my buddies Bennellis in the field and never once on my saiga. Yes box magazines are a pain if you are not able to figure out how to change them quickly. I carry a belly pack with two pockets which holds five mags just fine in the larger one and spare shells in the other. With 10 shells loaded, when hunting duck or 25 shells loaded hunting other game, I don't see a need for more rounds. The number of rounds carried loaded in the mags is almost double the bag limit.
__________________
Friends don't let friends shoot Glocks
6x6pinz is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 08:35 AM   #14
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
Quote:
Are there ones with polychoke on Saigas website, or are you actually seeing them available?
Once again why take part in a thread where you have nothing substantive to add. I can give you 4 places off the top of my head that has polychokes and even Russian chokes for the Saiga 12. Also just because you cannot wrap you head around why someone would want to hunt with an AK shotgun does not mean that it cannot be a really effective hunting platform.

It is the perfect deer and turkey shotgun IMO especially with a polychoke and a pistol grip conversion. It is so light and the recoil is very mild. While turkey hunting you can easily take those one handed shots while flashing a tom decoy in the other hand. Also with the chrome lined barrel they are very light on maintenance requirements as you do not need to worry about the barrel rusting and pitting. Like I said for bird hunting it is not ideal but those people that complain about not being able to top off, that is what 20 round drums are for Honestly you just need to get proficient with the platform and you can do everything fast.

Quote:
Look into detachable mags being legal to hunt in your state. I definitely heard someone say this at one point while talking about pheasant hunting with a Saiga in Ohio(about Ohio).
I definitely heard somewhere that there is info on the internet and before you throw stuff out there you should at least try to fact check. Here are the Ohio regulations, you just need to plug your shotgun so please no more red herrings:

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?tabid=20829

Last edited by lipadj46; May 14, 2009 at 08:53 AM.
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 08:37 AM   #15
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,774
I can think of a really good reason to hunt with a Saiga- You bought one for HD and it WORKS for hunting. Doesn't mean it s the best tool for the job given the price.
The chrome barrel is certainly an advantage in almost every situation.

"Once again of you obviously have no clue what you speak of..."
Why would I go to the bother of looking up Ohio laws on detachable mags when I do not even know if this guy is from Ohio, he is going to have to check that out in whatever state he is in.

You guys all think using a PG to swing on quail is easier than non-pg stocks also? I know it isn't for me on clays.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread

Last edited by johnwilliamson062; May 14, 2009 at 09:00 AM.
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 08:55 AM   #16
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
Don't get me wrong I definitely see where the Saiga platform limitations are and I use my 870 wingmaster with a long barrel for duck and pheasant. But to just come out and say they suck for all hunting is dead wrong as they have their strengths and can be very effective.

Edit: Well I guess you did not read my posts where I said deer and turkey hunting and specifically said not for bird hunting though Saigas are used by professional sporting clay shooters in Europe so it really all depends how they are setup.

Also you see I self-edited the sarcasm out of my post above I apologize but is early and I have a half drilled tooth because my dentist sucks.

Last edited by lipadj46; May 14, 2009 at 09:04 AM.
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 09:05 AM   #17
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 3,877
Quote:
You guys all think using a PG to swing on quail is easier than non-pg stocks also? I know it isn't for me on clays.
Depends. I have a 870 Tactical with a Knoxx SpecOps stock that is my best gun for skeet. I have yet to convert my Saiga 12 to pistol grip, but in its stock config it is ok (but not great) for skeet. I blame the sighting place far above the barrel (as opposed to sighting along the barrel); I'm not certain that's why picking up the Saiga puts me an immediate 2-3 birds down from the 870, but that's just how it is.
Technosavant is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 10:15 AM   #18
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,774
I have regular access to an 11-87, H&R single shot, Moss 500 persuader, Moss 500, any number of trap and sporting clays guns for shooting trap or 5 stand(A5s 870s, Berettas, Brownings, etc.).

I am pretty confident I could pick up any of these guns and use them for any shotgunning activity and see results similar to what technosavant reports(2-3 clays difference).

Like I have said in almost all my posts it will work. If you want it for HD or something and use it for hunting, good. I wouldn't buy a 24" to use it for ducks also though. I think you would hamper its effectiveness for HD with the extra 6" and still not have a great duck/quail gun.

I see what you guys are saying now with the chokes. Yes, for an additional $100 you can get a polychoke which fits the threads. I can go to wal-mart and pay $12 for whatever choke I want on my shotgun. It just so happens all the guns I own use the Remington chokes. I guess if I was buying more than 6 or 7 chokes and I did not want to be able to move them between guns easily, I assume you usually loctite the polychoke onto the barrel, a $100 poly choke would be awesome. It would be hard to forget the correct removeable choke, which I have done before.

The made by Izmash chokes look like they are $30+ a piece or $90 for a three set kit. Hope you like the patterns you get from those three chokes.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 10:29 AM   #19
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
Quote:
see what you guys are saying now with the chokes. Yes, for an additional $100 you can get a polychoke which fits the threads. I can go to wal-mart and pay $12 for whatever choke I want on my shotgun.
The polychoke is all you will ever need and $90 is what they cost no matter what brand they are made to it. It would better if you just said I have never used a Saiga but I feel they are not a good hunting shotgun for me instead of throwing out all these semi relevant "facts".

The fact is that I own and 870 12 gauge duck gun, 870 12 gauge deer gun, 20 gauge 870 deer gun, Mossberg 500 12 gauge deer gun, 1187 12 gauge duck gun and a Saiga 12. I choose the Saiga for deer and turkey over all the other shotguns. That is my choice after using them all in the field.

I will add the russian chokes are heavy duty military quality when compared to the regular in barrel style chokes they are pretty indestructible. If you are savvy also you can get all kinds of chokes from russia pretty much all the flavors including a rifled choke but the polychoke makes them obsolete save for the rifled choke. I am going to get a rifle choke so I can shoot sabot slugs next deer season.
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 10:50 AM   #20
zippy13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death from Afar
I tried one rabbit shooting once ( we have a lot of rabbits here, a lot). The box mag sucked. Big time. You could not shoot one, load one, and keep the gun topped up. If you have a lot of targets, its not ideal.
A point well noted! Not being able to top-off was a major complaint with the M-1 Garand battle rifle.

Not being familiar with the Saiga's specifics, my main concern is it's lack of a rib. As configured, I could shoot it like my AR at fixed or slow moving targets. However for anything on the wing, I want a rib and a conventional grip stock.
zippy13 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 11:03 AM   #21
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
They did have a ribbed model, not sure if they still import them though. I believe so but they are not that popular in this country as they are not used much for bird hunting and everyone wants the 19" model.
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 11:30 AM   #22
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
Here is a good indicator of a Saiga's toughness from those crazy russians. Look closely at the end you will see a S12 with a ribbed barrel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jugmbARIVtM
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 11:52 AM   #23
cat9x
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 212
box magazine fed shotguns are not practical for wing shooting. The shooting part is not problem, but stopping and changing magazines or topping off a magazine is impractical and slow (and carrying 10-15 magazines is almost hilarious). Get a shotgun designed for hunting and it will make things much easier. Unless you want to do it just to do it, go ahead, you'll be fumbling with magazines and reloading while your partners are dropping meat.
cat9x is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 11:55 AM   #24
lipadj46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Posts: 494
Agreed but winged shooting is only one kind of hunting. Seems in this thread the detractors don't consider shotguns are used for deer and turkey and the Saiga excels there IMO.
lipadj46 is offline  
Old May 14, 2009, 12:11 PM   #25
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
Quote:
used for deer and turkey and the Saiga excels there
I wouldn't go so far as to say "excels"...
Excel...
v., -celled, -cel┬Ěling, -cels.

v.tr.

To do or be better than; surpass.
v.intr.

To show superiority; surpass others.

Gonna be mighty tuff to surpass even a Maverick 88 in my hands on deer. Why would it excel? Semi auto? The only reason I load a mag tube is to have a full day of ammo and none in my pocket. I only need 2 shells for 2 deer. It is going to be mighty tuff to excel against a standard gun in competent hands when placing one slug in the red circle at 60-80 yards. I can also get off one round every 2-4 seconds into the same red circle for a total of 6 for 6.
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14322 seconds with 9 queries