The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 22, 2012, 11:42 AM   #76
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
Because HD's are worthless boat anchors! 1912 technology at 2012 prices

How's that overweight, underpowered, turns-like-an-oil-tanker potato potato machine working out for ya?

I'm done trolling. HD's still suck btw.
This post is proof that there are people that will post about motorcycle as well as guns when they don't know what much about either.

Since the springs used in guns have preset tension from the factory and there are no load bearing bearings(roller) that need periodic maintenance in a gun, the only thing left in a gun is tolerance between machined/stamped metal surfaces.
IMO, on most mass produced guns, the tolerances between mating surfaces are loose enough that the only thing that makes the gun malfunction is either the tolerances aren't correct or the steel mating surface are so rough the gun hangs up from time to time.
In other words, this so-called "break-in" period is nothing more then something crammed down the consumers throat as an excuse for turning out rough parts that could have been machined smoother at the factory.... A faster cheaper way to produce a product that we, the consumer, has apparently accepted as the norm cause we continue to buy guns faster then they can be produced. Even the factory triggers on the new S&W revolvers don't seem to be what they used to be.

Again, IMO, a break in period, is us the public, shooting the new pistol enough to hopefully smooth out the rough edges that causes a pistol to FTF every so often. If problem persist past the recommended break in period then we send the pistol back to the manufacturer for repairs. The returned guns they have to re-work versus the ones that run like they're supposed to makes it cheaper for the man. to do business this way.

If we want pistols with exact tolerances, great triggers and all smooth internal parts we need to get a hold of a custom builder and expect to pay $2000-$4000 for the pistol instead of $400-$1000.

Last edited by shortwave; October 22, 2012 at 11:55 AM.
shortwave is offline  
Old October 22, 2012, 02:43 PM   #77
ponchsox
Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2012
Posts: 56
I have yet to find a new pistol that shoots better after a "break-in" period. I think it's a bunch of bull crap. If your trigger sucks out of the box, get a trigger job or another pistol. It isn't going to magically smooth itself our after 500 rounds or so.
ponchsox is offline  
Old October 22, 2012, 04:17 PM   #78
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,320
Quote:
I have yet to find a new pistol that shoots better after a "break-in" period. I think it's a bunch of bull crap. If your trigger sucks out of the box, get a trigger job or another pistol. It isn't going to magically smooth itself our after 500 rounds or so.
Must have not shot many...

Try a NIB CZ... They are well known to have triggers that smooth out after a few hundred rounds.

Almost every gun I have ever fired has felt different after a few hundred rounds. Springs take a set, actions feel smoother...
marine6680 is offline  
Old October 22, 2012, 06:32 PM   #79
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
I have yet to find a new pistol that shoots better after a "break-in" period. I think it's a bunch of bull crap. If your trigger sucks out of the box, get a trigger job or another pistol. It isn't going to magically smooth itself our after 500 rounds or so.
I have. Quit a few.

Especially both my S&W 442 and 642. They had horrible triggers on them when they were first bought. After many rds. and a ton of dry firing, they have smoothed out very nicely.

Have noticed smoother operations on just about every new semi auto I've ever bought after several hundred rds through them as well.

Have only bought two that wouldn't get through a full mag. without a FTF. One was taken back by the dealer after many long,rude conversation with the factory rep.(a long story).
Another of a different brand that was sent back for warranty repairs after a grueling mandatory 1000rd. break in period in which didn't cure the problem.
I got that pistol back and it well eat any kind of ammo and over the years has proven itself worthy of my winter ccw.

That's not to bad considering the number of guns bought in the last 30+years.

Last edited by shortwave; October 22, 2012 at 06:46 PM.
shortwave is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:02 PM   #80
PH/CIB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 281
Any firearm I buy should function reliably right out of the box.

I bought a Kahr PM40 when they first came out. Shot 500 rounds of various ammo out of it and every magazine failure to return to battery, failure to feed, and the magazines started to break and fall apart.

Sent it back to Kahr they sent the gun back with some new magazines. Another 500 rounds of different ammo downrange, same issues, failure to return to battery, failure to feed, also one magazine would hold one round less than the others, so I took it apart and they had installed two magazine followers in the same magazine, one on top of the other. Sent the pistol back to Kahr.

By the way I do not limp wrist.

The pistol came back and another 500 rounds of various ammo downrange, same issues, failure to return to battery, failure to feed. Sent pistol back to Kahr. Pistol came back same issues.

Sold to Scheels being upfront about the problems with the gun.

Kahr specifies a break in period.

To me a break in period required by a manufacturer is just so the manufacturer can now say the gun is used and not refund your money and continue to lead you on and hope that their guarantee and quick fixes will somehow solve the problem or that you will simply get tired and give up and go away.

There is no doubt a gun will get smoother and wear in with use, but it should be manufactured and tested so that it is reliable right out of the box.
__________________
Life Member,,,Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, Amvets, Disabled American Veterans, 173rd Airborne Skysoldier Association, National Rifle Association, Member,,,IDPA, USPSA, Iowa Sheriffs and Deputies Association,,Website http://www.handgunholsters.net
PH/CIB is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:33 PM   #81
crazy charlie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 29, 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 166
I do believe the term'break-in' is over used in forums, unless the manufacturer states it in their users manual. Even then the cost of ammo being what it is the manufacturer should break it in before you buy it, or give you free ammo to break it in yourself.
I'm glad I didn't have to break in a newely issued firearm when I went to Nam'.
I can see it all now. Don't shoot me. I'm just going thru my break in period or taking a non functioning weapon into the armorer and him saying don't worry it is going thru it's break in period. Just keep your head down for the next 200rds. If it doesn't work after that bring it in and I'll see if I can get it back to you in the month or two.
crazy charlie is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:40 PM   #82
drail
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 3,150
"Rough edges" do not "cause a pistol to malfunction once in a while". Poorly machined and incorrectly fitted parts do. Shooting 500 rounds ain't gonna fix that.
drail is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:41 PM   #83
nazshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2008
Posts: 151
If I had a choice between paying, say $100 extra for a gun that was hand fitted, polished, or whatever is required to eliminate break in VS spending that same money on ammo and just shooting it I'd take the latter. I like shooting and was planning to shoot it anyway so I really don't see the problem.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
nazshooter is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:45 PM   #84
drail
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 3,150
All they have to do is follow the original blueprint and hold tolerances within spec. instead of building to a price point. You can build it so it works out of the box or you can build it so it only costs XXX dollars so you can outsell your competition. Guess who gets the short end of that stick?
drail is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:59 PM   #85
nazshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2008
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by drail View Post
All they have to do is follow the original blueprint and hold tolerances within spec. instead of building to a price point. You can build it so it works out of the box or you can build it so it only costs XXX dollars so you can outsell your competition. Guess who gets the short end of that stick?
All of the people who never get to own the gun due to the higher cost?

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
nazshooter is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 03:16 PM   #86
polyphemus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2012
Posts: 449
On the contrary,those are the lucky ones,the unsuspecting buyers who plunked down their hard earned dollars thinking that they were dealing with an honest arms manufacturer only to find out that it wasn't the case are the ones at the short end of the stick.
polyphemus is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 03:50 PM   #87
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
If I had a choice between paying, say $100 extra for a gun that was hand fitted, polished, or whatever is required to eliminate break in VS spending that same money on ammo and just shooting it I'd take the latter. I like shooting and was planning to shoot it anyway so I really don't see the problem.
Hand fitting ,hand polishing/lapping and getting tolerances to tightest/closest fit they can be and still have a pistol that functions flawlessly is an art of a true craftsman. You're talking 'custom work' and you won't find that in any production gun.... and you surely won't get that kind of work today for a $100 extra.

More like a couple $1000 extra.
shortwave is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 06:22 PM   #88
polyphemus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2012
Posts: 449
Two magazine followers,one on top of the other?
This is out of control.If this continues they're going to shut this thread down.
polyphemus is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 06:39 PM   #89
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
Quote:
Two magazine followers,one on top of the other?
This is out of control.If this continues they're going to shut this thread down.
Don't understand post.

Please explain.
shortwave is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 07:58 PM   #90
polyphemus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2012
Posts: 449
My pleasure,please read post#80 and that will shed some light on the magazine comment.The rest has to do with the aversion that certain moderators have to manufacturer criticism in my case all I did to get that little lock next to my post was to suggest that there should be a web based consumer database of M1911 manufacturer issues.
polyphemus is offline  
Old October 23, 2012, 08:45 PM   #91
Valerko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 153
I've bought $700 Taurus 1911. Out exactly 100 rounds of factory ammo thru it , just because I didn't have any .45 loaded. Right after that I've switched to my reloads. 200 g lead semi wadcuters
3000 rounds later , gun works the same. No issues,no malfunctions.
I do have a high price 1911 plan in the future. But I'm not gonna treat to any differently.
Valerko is offline  
Old October 24, 2012, 11:42 AM   #92
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,295
Break

Quote:
The guns that I hear of requiring the most break in period is 1911's... and that's because they are made to very tight specs. The metal is very close together.
We hear that a lot about 1911s. I do not believe that it is so. Why? When I bought my first 1911, a Colt Gold Cup, I sent it out to have it further accurized. That work involved tightening the gun. This is a common procedure in Bullseye shooting where precision and reliability are both paramount. As I noted in an earlier post, the gun has been super reliable. So I have trouble with the idea that 1911s are too tight to be dependable right out of the box.
Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old October 24, 2012, 11:54 AM   #93
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Tight is good if properly fitted. Tight is bad if not properly fitted. Still have trouble with the idea? Some manufacturers have tried to attain match accuracy via tight construction, while cutting costs by skimping on fitting.
MLeake is offline  
Old October 24, 2012, 02:26 PM   #94
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,295
Fit

Quote:
Tight is bad if not properly fitted
Good point.
I suspect that all the breaking in in the world is not going to make poorly fitted parts fit better.
Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old October 24, 2012, 03:11 PM   #95
Panfisher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 600
I think its an easy fix. Especially for the "higher" end manufacturers. Simply take those firearms, 1911, AR's, even shotguns and send them to me along with an endless supply of ammo. Each firearm should have a note saying how many rounds they want fired through it. I will sacrifice my time by shooting it for them, might even clean and re-lube them if paid extra and send it back or directly to the buyer whichever. That way we all win!

I suspect I could get an ammo company to sponsor me, "This firearm was proudly broken in with Federal Match ammunition", tag for every one mailed out.
Panfisher is offline  
Old October 25, 2012, 11:33 AM   #96
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,295
Wow

Quote:
I think its an easy fix. Especially for the "higher" end manufacturers. Simply take those firearms, 1911, AR's, even shotguns and send them to me along with an endless supply of ammo. Each firearm should have a note saying how many rounds they want fired through it. I will sacrifice my time by shooting it for them, might even clean and re-lube them if paid extra and send it back or directly to the buyer whichever. That way we all win!

I suspect I could get an ammo company to sponsor me, "This firearm was proudly broken in with Federal Match ammunition", tag for every one mailed out.
You are a fine, a noble, a caring , giving man to make such an offer. Such a burden to take on.....and for free. What a guy!
Pete
__________________
"Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." - R.Ruark
NRA Life Member
darkgael is offline  
Old October 25, 2012, 02:31 PM   #97
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,162
There are so many variables and different manufacturing standards, I dont think there is any set rule of thumb as far as breaking in a gun. I have some that never felt any different after 500 rounds and some that feel better. Usually at the 500 round mark, I know if I am gonna keep the gun or not. All guns should feed reliable right out of the box. Trigger and slide feel may change.
Mystro is offline  
Old October 25, 2012, 03:07 PM   #98
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
I can see that some of us understand machinery and some of us do not. Comparing guns to cars or motorcycles is a fine analogy. Break in polishes down the high areas and then stops, as noted.

You guys that think that your gun should run 100% out of the box probably have no problem with tweaking the new car that you get, following the manufacturers advice. If you yell about it long enough, or sic cheese eaters on em, they'll start breaking the guns in at the factory, and gun prices will get closer to car prices.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old October 25, 2012, 04:05 PM   #99
Joespapa
Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2012
Posts: 17
The only thing I can contribute to this discussion is that in 37 years of purchasing and shooting firearms I have NEVER had ANY issues with a revolver ...... ymmv
Joespapa is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12242 seconds with 7 queries