The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > NFA Guns and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 6, 2009, 08:31 PM   #1
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
Amnesty

Has any progress been made regarding introduction of new legislation to have another amnesty?
gyvel is offline  
Old October 6, 2009, 09:18 PM   #2
Superhouse 15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2007
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 844
The Man has said in the past they will not have an amnesty because it will risk ongoing investigations.
Superhouse 15 is offline  
Old October 6, 2009, 10:08 PM   #3
4thPointofContact
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2007
Posts: 197
Better to arrest, prosecute and cause fear than to risk actually having a working register of controlled weapons. Those that weren't registered by the cutoff date are likely kept in the strictest of secrecy (like the millions of firearms leftover from any of the numerous European conflicts).
4thPointofContact is offline  
Old October 8, 2009, 05:27 PM   #4
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
So, working around all the sarcasm, the attempts at introducing legislature to allow, for example, amnesty for weapons found in the "attics" of deceased WWII vets is a dead issue?
gyvel is offline  
Old October 8, 2009, 05:44 PM   #5
Hkmp5sd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2001
Location: Winter Haven, Florida
Posts: 4,303
It doesn't look like it is going to happen. Right now the only effort is to get an exemption for the movie industry from 922(o) (machinegun ban), so they don't have to go to Canada to film shows with post-86 machineguns or dub in sound/light effects for Airsoft guns.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer

NRA Life Member
Hkmp5sd is offline  
Old October 13, 2009, 10:56 AM   #6
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 8,048
You have a Dem in the whitehouse. Dems control the Senate. Dems control the House.

What part of this present situation gives us any hope that there is going to be another machine gun amnesty in the near future? Even when the Republicans controlled the Presidency, Senate and the House, this didn't happen.
Skans is offline  
Old October 14, 2009, 02:20 AM   #7
dannydesiliva
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Posts: 7
Saw this on the news tonight, it's great that Amnesty have make a statement on the situation.
dannydesiliva is offline  
Old October 14, 2009, 01:24 PM   #8
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,846
I don't see this ever happening. More likely the registry would be reopened IMO. Can you imagine what the cost of a preban 10-22 would go up to preceding this? There would be all kinds of people trying to find old receivers and convert.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old October 14, 2009, 02:46 PM   #9
Mike OTDP
Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2009
Posts: 24
Depends on what you consider to be an amnesty.

My own opinion is that the NFA Transfer Registry is now thoroughly impeached as anything more than hearsay evidence. Which means that there is a significant chance that a court will rule that it is up to ATF to prove illegal posession, rather than the owner having to prove his lack of guilt.

When this looks imminent, ATF will use the amnesty authority to declare a "re-registration" period. Anything that could possibly have been legally owned can be freshly papered.

An unlimited amnesty? Doubtful - but don't count a repeal of section 922(o) out.
Mike OTDP is offline  
Old October 21, 2009, 12:41 AM   #10
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
Quote:
Can you imagine what the cost of a preban 10-22 would go up to preceding this?
A "pre-ban" 10-22?????
gyvel is offline  
Old November 6, 2009, 08:01 PM   #11
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 5,229
Actaully, I was wondering about the bill that would allow amnesty registration of NFA weapons that some of our WWII vets had stashed in the attics, and are being discovered by heirs as the vets die off.
gyvel is offline  
Old November 7, 2009, 07:33 AM   #12
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
I think there should be lobby to have the registry reopened. Perhaps, just levy a big yearly tax on ownership of each modern weapon. This way revenue will be generated and folks who really want to pay and have new auto weapons should be able to enjoy. Also, someone may enjoy a weapon with heavy tax for a year and then sell it off when done with it.

Just a thought since I think banning and item is just stupid and creates market for illegal weapons.
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 7, 2009, 10:24 AM   #13
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Firepower! I think there should be lobby to have the registry reopened. Perhaps, just levy a big yearly tax on ownership of each modern weapon. This way revenue will be generated and folks who really want to pay and have new auto weapons should be able to enjoy. Also, someone may enjoy a weapon with heavy tax for a year and then sell it off when done with it.

Just a thought since I think banning and item is just stupid and creates market for illegal weapons.
Another tax? Why?:barf:

Why do we need another tax levied much less one you consider heavy?:barf:

Wouldn't this "heavy tax" serve as a ban in and of itself? Wouldn't those intent on crime just steal their automatic firearms instead of paying the tax?

Please explain why only those able to afford this "heavy tax" should be able to register & use new fully automatic weapons.

And most of all.......
Quote:
..and then sell it off when done with it...
Whut?
__________________
Need a FFL in north Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me.

$20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)
dogtown tom is offline  
Old November 7, 2009, 12:31 PM   #14
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
dogtown...
I rather pay and get what I want than not having it at all.

Money is of no concern.
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 7, 2009, 03:34 PM   #15
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,846
what I meant was with an amnesty you could go out and buy pre-86, then convert and register them and resell. I think every pre-86 10-22 would end up full auto.

Updated for inflation the NFA tax would be about $3200. How many would pay that to register a full auto weapon? Maybe that is what needs to be pushed right now to make headway on the issue. Even at $5,000 I think it would go a bit crazy with new registrations. A lot of money could be made for the government.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread

Last edited by johnwilliamson062; November 9, 2009 at 09:58 AM.
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 09:40 AM   #16
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 8,048
Quote:
A lot of money could be made for the government.
More money could be made if the government simply took their old M16's, registered them on Form 4's and sold them to Civilians.
Skans is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 09:57 AM   #17
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,846
I think allowing civilians to purchase weapons and register them is more likaly than the government selling them. I don't think .gov or .mil wants to be associated with civilian arms sales.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 10:33 AM   #18
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
More money could be made if the government simply took their old M16's, registered them on Form 4's and sold them to Civilians.
I agree with this as well.
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 10:37 AM   #19
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,846
Ok, so lets look at this possibility more closely. How many old M16 lowers are in government storage? I would guess they have actually all been converted or destroyed. If it was a way to make 3 billion dollars over the next year it might actually get some traction, but if this would have to be a slow release as currently used rifles are phased out, no way in hell.

I don't think it could happen either way, but if .gov can bring in some money right now a lot of people in the middle would become fans. Maybe restrict initial sale to retired military officers or members of the IRR, although right now that probably would not go over well.

Yes I realize it is unfair, just trying to think of what would be the most likely criteria for this to pass through all the crap.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 10:55 AM   #20
Beretta686
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 741
Quote:
More money could be made if the government simply took their old M16's, registered them on Form 4's and sold them to Civilians.
Ya'll are smoking crack if you think .gov or .mil would ever dream of having a "clearance sale" on weapons.

All the old weapons get given off to training units such as Cadet Command (I had an M16A1 when I went through my ROTC gay-ness at Ft. Lewis in early 2000s), given/sold to PDs or allied nations.

Anyone who has been around the military and seen how anal it is with weapons, knows their never going to let them be touched by a civi.
__________________
"Our contract called for 16 cases of rifles and ammunition for $10,000 dollars, not a machine gun...........That is our present to the General"-Pike Bishop

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
Beretta686 is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 11:25 AM   #21
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,846
That is what I thought. If there was a stockpile of 2 million rifles worth $10,000 (my out of air estimated value of a full auto lower once the market gets a limited flood) each less $500 processing cost, that would generate revenue of nineteen billion dollars.

I also think this is never going to happen, but a lot of people would like to see .gov pull in that kind of cash at no expense.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 11:47 AM   #22
Firepower!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Posts: 2,109
Quote:
Ya'll are smoking crack if you think .gov or .mil would ever dream of having a "clearance sale" on weapons
I dont think anyone is smoking crack or dreaming here of anything. We are just discussing hytheticals- not day dreaming and assuming things, now that will be something like smoking crack.
Firepower! is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 11:59 AM   #23
dogtown tom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Firepower!: dogtown...
I rather pay and get what I want than not having it at all.

Money is of no concern.
How long have you been a Democrat? Could you try to sound more elitist?
It seems the only way the Democratic Party knows how to raise revenue is by raising taxes.

The Second Amendment is a right, not a revenue generator. Would your plan to heavily tax NFA firearms extend to other rights we enjoy? For example reading the newspaper? Going to church? Voting? Why not do a poll tax? Oh, because that is illegal.

You Democrats can keep the NFA tax @ $200 per and just permanantly reopen the registry to new NFA firearms. This would boost the economy and more people could take advantage of their right to own a fully automatic firearm. More purchasers= more manufacturing=more jobs=more sales taxes collected. There's your revenue.

Your method (very high taxes) would kill the companies that manufacture the very guns you want to buy.:barf: Hell, at least half my transfer business can be attributed to people wanting to avoid paying Texas sales tax. The busiest sales period in Texas is during the "tax free weekend" held every summer right before school starts.


.
__________________
Need a FFL in north Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me.

$20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers)

Last edited by dogtown tom; November 9, 2009 at 02:42 PM. Reason: spelning
dogtown tom is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 02:44 PM   #24
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 8,048
Quote:
Ya'll are smoking crack if you think .gov or .mil would ever dream of having a "clearance sale" on weapons.

All the old weapons get given off to training units such as Cadet Command (I had an M16A1 when I went through my ROTC gay-ness at Ft. Lewis in early 2000s), given/sold to PDs or allied nations.

Anyone who has been around the military and seen how anal it is with weapons, knows their never going to let them be touched by a civi.
I think most of us know this. The point is that it's STUPID! Civilians would pay far more money for our government's old weapons than foreign countries. Furthermore, OUR GOVERNMENT should trust US Citizens with it's old weapons more than it trusts foreign countries. Our government obviously considers us, its citizens, it's biggest enemy. THAT is the problem, my friend.
Skans is offline  
Old November 9, 2009, 02:57 PM   #25
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,846
Quote:
OUR GOVERNMENT should trust US Citizens with it's old weapons more than it trusts foreign countries
The problem with your statements is the weapons aren't given to a trusted friend as much as to buy the loyalty of a necessary ally. Construction contracts are used more so for this purpose, but so are the weapons.

If you are willing to go fight in Iraq I am fairly certain the US government will GIVE you a full auto rifle and ammunition.

Not saying it is right/wrong, just that it has more to do with incentives than trust.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14610 seconds with 7 queries