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Old October 5, 2009, 02:32 PM   #1
MikeGoob
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Warning shot gets a shotgun to the face--news video

A guy confronts neighbors shooting his dogs and fires a warning shot--gets a shotgun blast in the face.

He survived--check out the video:
http://www.killsometime.com/video/video.asp?ID=1018

Thats a lot of holes in his head

Moral of the story--no warning shot or stay out of the fight?

Last edited by MikeGoob; October 5, 2009 at 02:49 PM.
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Old October 5, 2009, 04:36 PM   #2
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That seems like an example of where a warning shot was a bad idea.
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Old October 5, 2009, 04:50 PM   #3
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Where's that birdshot vs buckshot thread???
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Old October 5, 2009, 04:57 PM   #4
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birdshot vs buckshot

What was the range? If greater than in-house distances (5-7 yards for most of us), not really a valid argument.
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Old October 5, 2009, 05:34 PM   #5
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He SHOULD have controlled his dogs.

Not saying that it was reasonable for the neighbor to act as he did, by any means. Also not saying that I wouldn't be tempted to react very decisively if somebody threatened one of my animals, let alone shot at one.

However, the victim said there had been ongoing tensions with the neighbors over his dogs running loose.

Odds are, letting his dogs run loose wasn't legal. Letting them run loose in the street wasn't safe, for the dogs or for drivers who would have to take evasive action around the dogs.

So my question is, why didn't he erect a fence, or keep the dogs inside, etc? This whole situation might never have occurred.

However, once it did, firing a warning shot at a guy who was not only holding a shotgun but who had already fired it illegally was just plain stupid. Either shoot, or better yet find cover and wait for the cops, but don't stand in the open and fire a warning shot...
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Old October 5, 2009, 05:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Where's that birdshot vs buckshot thread???
Which one??..........

Street to house distance likely here (assuming the guy fired the warning shot from his porch) and it actually took him out of the fight. Says he doesn't remember what happened after being shot. Of course, street to house distance could be anything from feet to yards to miles depending on where you live. I'd bet somewhere in the 7-15 yard range though.

NOT a reaction I would bet my life on happening with using birdshot as a defensive round, but this doesn't seem to be a good example of birdshot not working to stop either.

And yes, there's enough fault on this situation to make the rounds a couple times. Keep your dogs under control, don't go shooting other people's animals, and don't go off half cocked firing warning shots. Either it's a gunfight or it ain't......
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Old October 5, 2009, 06:00 PM   #7
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I got to thinking, is it possible the man was shot legally?

Sure the man shooting dogs is breaking a law but once he thought his life was in danger (the warning shot) is he acting in self defense?

If so, could this get the assailant off scott free and possibly get the homeowner jail time?
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Old October 5, 2009, 06:02 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure...

... that self-defense goes out the window, if the action results from a felony committed by the guy claiming self-defense.

I'm also pretty sure that in most jurisdictions, shooting a dog from the back of a pickup truck (IE not remotely threatened by the dog) would be felony animal cruelty. Discharging the firearm in a residential area may well have been a felony, as well.

So I think it would be very hard for the shotgunner to claim SD. Won't stop him from trying...
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Old October 5, 2009, 06:08 PM   #9
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It seems that there's a lot more to this story.

From what I can gather from googling about this incident and the guy who got shot, he's one of those crazy animal collector types... like the old ladies who have 100 cats... except in his case he has almost 200 goats (which at one point were living inside his house) and 40+ dogs, not to mention a reputation for shooting at his neighbors.
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Old October 5, 2009, 06:32 PM   #10
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So many bad decisions by 3 people.....

But....... I don't agree with ever firing a warning shot.

The worst decision has to be for a dad to haul his son in the back of a truck for the purpose of shooting dogs.
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Old October 5, 2009, 06:44 PM   #11
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The worst decision has to be for a dad to haul his son in the back of a truck for the purpose of shooting dogs.
Agreed.........even in cases where the son is an adult, Dad's word holds a lot of sway and should be used wisely. In this case it wasn't.
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Old October 6, 2009, 09:43 AM   #12
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I got to thinking, is it possible the man was shot legally?
Not defending the practice of letting dogs run loose, but if I understand the piece correctly, the father and son came to the other guy's house to threaten him and his dogs, then returned with the shotgun to carry out their threats. So, I have to ask, if the dogs were such an immediate threat as to justify firearms, why did they have to go to the guy's house to find one to shoot? Then, claiming self defense after coming armed to someone else's house for such purposes just isn't going to work, no matter how flaky the other guy is. This sounds like a feud that is getting out of hand.
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Old October 6, 2009, 10:32 AM   #13
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Idiots and firearms do not mix. Especially when those idiots come into close proximity with each other.
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Old October 6, 2009, 10:42 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by csmsss
Idiots and firearms do not mix. Especially when those idiots come into close proximity with each other.
What an understatement! This guy looks a bit inbred. I really think warning shoots are a bad idea and haven't seen any examples on TFL or out in the rest of the world where they do make sense IMO.
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Old October 6, 2009, 10:52 AM   #15
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I can only think of a few instances I've read about where warning shots made sense...

... (leaving aside riot police responses to mobs)...

... but those involved scaring off animals, not people.

In one instance I read about, a man scared off a charging bull by shooting up dust clouds in front of it with a Colt Woodsman. As his story went, he felt that actually hitting the bull with the .22 might just make it mad, but the noise and the sudden dust clouds might spook it. He claimed it worked.

Other instances have involved scaring off dogs or coyotes.

As far as a single individual firing warning shots in an SD scenario, I can't see any good coming of this. On the bad side, the individual is now down one round in capacity; he's liable for wherever the round goes and whatever it does; he may have just provided his potential attackers with a reasonable SD argument of their own ("he was shooting at us!").
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Old October 6, 2009, 06:23 PM   #16
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Would the guy with the dog have been justified in shooting the son in the truck? tough call, guys come up to your property and start shooting your animals can you respond with force or just have to wait on the police? I think in VA you could not unless the gun was pointed in your direction.

The shooters have no defense having started the gun fight before they were threatened, unless they have a real good lawyer they are going to prison.
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Old October 6, 2009, 08:33 PM   #17
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Would the guy with the dog have been justified in shooting the son in the truck? tough call, guys come up to your property and start shooting your animals can you respond with force or just have to wait on the police? I think in VA you could not unless the gun was pointed in your direction.
In most states, dogs and other domesticated animals are considered property. Thus, in most states you are not justified in using deadly force in the defense of your pets.

Quote:
The shooters have no defense having started the gun fight before they were threatened, unless they have a real good lawyer they are going to prison.
I don't agree with your assessment. The guy with the face full of birdshot initiated the human to human encounter in his defense of the animals (warning shot), and therefore is responsible for starting the gun fight.

The larger point is that there are no "victims" here, and no "good guys" either. Just three nincompoops who are lucky to be alive.
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Old October 6, 2009, 10:58 PM   #18
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I'm not even going to try and think this out it would be point less. They are lucky there is only a dead dog. Maybe all three need some jail time certainly the guys in the truck do. Just plain stupid things people do with guns.
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Old October 6, 2009, 11:31 PM   #19
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warning shot- bad idea.
The shot that killed the dog was a blatant attack on the guy. The dog wasn't a threat because the kid with the shotgun is above in the truck out of reach of the dog.
The dog being in the road isn't a threat, its an annoyance. Not justified in shooting a dog when it comes out to bark.
Again, warning shot bad idea. Shoot for the guy with the shotgun next time
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Old October 7, 2009, 07:53 AM   #20
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Dog ownwers are responisble for controlling their animals. Some do, others don't. The don'ts cause problems for others and themselves. There's a lesson to be learned here.
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Old October 7, 2009, 10:00 AM   #21
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That seems like an example of where a warning shot was a bad idea.
Is a warning shot ever a good idea? I think not. I am justified in drawing my weapon only if I: "actually believe you are in imminent danger of loss of life or serious bodily injury or actually be in such danger;". Under those conditions, a warning shot negates that reason and opens me up for criminal charges. If I have to shoot, it'll be COM.
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Old October 7, 2009, 02:46 PM   #22
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The dog wasn't a threat because the kid with the shotgun is above in the truck out of reach of the dog.
While not defending any of these goon's behavior...
The above quote is not all true. Any of my bulldogs can easily leap into a slightly jacked up 4X4 on 32 inch tires and never touch the sides... I know... the guy had a hog in the back
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Old October 8, 2009, 09:19 AM   #23
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The most disturbing thing was the flies crawling around the dude's dome, and he didn't shoo em off.
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Old October 8, 2009, 10:50 AM   #24
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All the stupidity aside for just a moment, If someone comes within my proximity and shooting ANYTHING that isn't threatening them, let alone an innocent animal that happens to be my property, I'm taking that as a potential threat on my life and acting accordingly.
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Old October 8, 2009, 07:53 PM   #25
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Man, there's enough redneck white trash in that video to make a PBS documentary. I don't have any sympathy for any of 'em.
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