The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 1, 2009, 07:24 PM   #26
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,310
I had an experience with some door to door sales people last night. 2 Girls Scouts selling cookies.
The forced me to buy 3 boxes, and dang it if they did not last out the hour afterwards. Two of my weaknesses are adorable young un's (I have a hard time saying no to em) and cookies.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old October 2, 2009, 12:26 AM   #27
Trashcan-man
Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: North FL
Posts: 76
Well let me say first...that as I stated before Door to door salesmen, IN GENERAL, are legit. No, I'm not saying every one is...just that there is still such a thing as a door to door salesman. If you don't believe me then google it, you can even find places to apply for these jobs.
Pyzon - To be honest I really don't feel like sitting here arguing with you over this, its not worth my time. I said my peace and stand by it. Good luck with your ongoing war against humanity...lol.
To everybody else, all I've got to say that I'd prefer these people come to my house 3x daily than I would have them give up and sit at home collecting welfare. I'd rather give them a few bucks for a magazine subscription than I would have that money taken from me by the gov't to given to them.

Stay safe
__________________
Pepsi is the anti-christ - Me

Omnem dimittite spem, o vos intrantes - The Devine Comedy
Trashcan-man is offline  
Old October 2, 2009, 07:39 AM   #28
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,565
I'm with you, Trashcan-man, but if you go back to the OP, . . . these dudes didn't have business cards, . . . no logo or signeage on the vehicle, . . . and just did a "call us if you need us" and out the driveway.

Actually at the time, I was just glad to see them go, . . . it was when I was analyzing the prospects that it began to really add up as either a setup/crooked deal or (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt) just two guys who were poor sales people.

I just wanted to pass on the discussion I had in my mind, . . . hope someone else can use the info.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old October 2, 2009, 10:25 AM   #29
45Gunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 1,735
I think the point being made is that in this day in age, it is not safe to trust everyone. That's not to say no one can be trusted. It's different times and it is prudent to be on alert.

I was shot years ago in a home invasion robbery when I used to live in a high rise condo. Who would have thought?

I never go out without a weapon and I always, always have one close at hand while in my house.
__________________
45Gunner
May the Schwartz Be With You.
NRA Instructor
NRA Life Member
45Gunner is offline  
Old October 2, 2009, 02:18 PM   #30
xjmox14x
Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 98
There's a difference between being prepared and situational awareness, and being downright unnecessarily rude and abrasive because you are uncomfortable.

To the OP, I definately would have been cautious. You seemed to have some decent situational awareness in that you picked up on some things that seemed out of place (i.e. no business card, no phone number, no company car, etc.), so obviously they did not seem legit. If a couple of guys pulled up in bright yellow uniforms driving a Stanley Steamer truck, it would've been a little bit different I'm sure.

And yes, door to door salesmen still do exist today, however as someone already pointed out, certainly not as abundant as a few decades ago. With the internet growing every day, and a vast amount of shopping being done online, people have other alternatives in having stuff delivered to them without leaving their house.

But I emphasize my original point. Just because someone rings your doorbell and you don't know who they are, does not give you the right to trash them, spit in their face, and kick them off your property because they disrupted your peaceful reclusive life. It is still socially acceptable to be KIND. If you don't want to listen to them, kindly tell them you are not interested and ask them to leave. If something does not seem right or sets off your senses, then prepare yourself. And you can do so while still managing a set of social skills. The saying goes, "the best defense is a good offense". However, unfortunately, this does not apply in a social non-war zone. We can't go around taking out all of the salemen because they might be a bad guy trying to get into your precious house.

Some of these posts makes me feel like I'm watching Grumpy Old Men.
xjmox14x is offline  
Old October 2, 2009, 05:15 PM   #31
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,552
Quote:
I had an experience with some door to door sales people last night. 2 Girls Scouts selling cookies.
Those are the worst. Little cuties selling cookies seem to have the ability to empty my wallet quicker than a perp with a gun to the back of my head.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old October 2, 2009, 05:54 PM   #32
hornady
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: SWPA
Posts: 428
Being retired and two bum legs, if I am out in the yard. I have a gun on. We also have a long Driveway. Last year about 9 pm , My wife was going to let the dog out. As she opened the door. The neighbor had come up the ramp. And was about to ring the bell. As she opened the Door. I don’t know which was scared more. Now we have a driveway alarm, and we know if someone comes in.

I have what I call my yard Gun. A star in 9MM. If it gets beat up a little no big deal. And then for going out. my normal carry guns a 1911 or a S&W.
hornady is offline  
Old October 2, 2009, 06:43 PM   #33
lomaxanderson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2006
Location: La.
Posts: 349
Two German Shepherd Dogs

...you ain't sneaking into my house...Period. you my be harmed inside the fence thou...if you get past the dogs there will be no suprise...how does it go forget the dog ...beware of the owner...
__________________
All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die
STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311

Mason Rhea Gsd
lomaxanderson is offline  
Old October 3, 2009, 07:37 AM   #34
.22lr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2007
Posts: 239
Right to property and privacy.

I believe in being nice. I believe in being polite. I believe that if you come to my door, attempt to sell me something and I say "no thank you" its time for you to go, NOW.

Few things are ruder than persisting when the other person has shown they have no interest in continuing the solicitation. I don't care that its your job. You choose it, and you have to deal with it. Its my home. I make the payments and decide what is allowed (once i check with the wife first, gotta keep management happy) If I ask you to leave and you persist, its disrespectful and rude.

I was a telemarketer while in college. People hung up on me, cursed me out etc. I hated the job, but I understood why people were angry. I was invading their privacy with an unwanted call, and trying to separate them from thier money. Its the one job that I have quit.

If I'm in my yard, strangers are met with "hello, can I help you" from a distance.

If I'm inside, I talk to them through the door.

Rude? Tough. Want to come inside and talk? Sorry, this is MY home, and I make the rules here. I'll gladly let you in if you slide the next month's mortgage payment under the door.

And to those who believe that criminals would NEVER misrepresent themselves or lie to see if your home is worth breaking into, gladly let any solicitor into your home.

If you do not leave someone's property when requested, it is disrespectful and rude. Any assertive behavior on the part of the homeowner is warranted by your poor manners at that point. This obviously does not extend to insults or physical harm.
.22lr is offline  
Old October 3, 2009, 10:26 AM   #35
N.H. Yankee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2004
Location: Rural N.H.
Posts: 1,586
I am always concealed carry armed outside, I live in quite a rural area where you could scream till your hoarse and no one would hear you, and with a part time PD. I also have a 100lb dog with no sense of humor that is quite intimidating flashing her teeth and dripping foam. I also always have my cell with me, one never knows when a medical emergency may occur and you can't make to the land line.

I have had an instance where I was glad I had my weapon as I had a confrontation with a perp turned cop killer at my door. He killed a cop my son went to school with 2 weeks after my confrontation. I am also very leary of females, especially those appearing to be in distress, many perps use them as bait, and girls ain't what they used to be. Last but not least having a firearm is always a great way to break the ice with those marauding Jehovah's witnesses.
__________________
The real danger to America is not abroad but within..
Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out!
Save America, abort liberalism.
N.H. Yankee is offline  
Old October 3, 2009, 06:18 PM   #36
cop-out
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2007
Location: North central Missouri
Posts: 11
cop-out

I have carried so long that I feel naked with out a weapon. After retirement my wife pretty well called me stupid for carrying while mowing the yard on our rural property. That was until a bull that had gotten out of a neighbor's pasture decided he owned our yard to the point he would fight to possess it. Needless to say a 1600 pound bull is rather hard to whip bare handed. A .45 ACP does even things out though. I no longer get static over carrying now.

The only time that I feel stupid about carrying a gun is when I don't have it with me when I should.
cop-out is offline  
Old October 5, 2009, 04:04 PM   #37
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,969
You shot his bull?

We round em up where I live using ATVs, a good bull cost a bunch.
markj is offline  
Old October 5, 2009, 05:51 PM   #38
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,552
Quote:
a good bull cost a bunch.
Yeah, over 5 bucks a pound depending on cut.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old October 6, 2009, 10:01 AM   #39
Pyzon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2009
Posts: 274
Trashcanman-

At the expense of continuing this "argument" that I thought was merely an exchange of opinions (which is sorta what this forum is about I think), obviously our situations are different, and I have experienced something you have not, not yet at least, and that was a B&E where the law enforcement folks told me that the way these dudes case their potential victims was by posing as door to door salesmen. No stats were provided by the detective at the time, so if you choose to think I am making this all up, fine, keep opening your door to every body that knocks. The others here that have evidence that dirtballs do the same in their neighborhood are probably just as "paranoid" as me too and if that makes me a recluse or a grumpy old man, I was in denial too until I got taken advantage of. Things are not the same these days and I hope you never find out the hard way that bad dudes are in your towns too.

Quote:
If you claim you didn't see my "please leave me alone" sign (18"X24") then I will give you a chance to explain your intent, but I expect a quick and honest answer or things are going to get very blunt and maybe rude in a hurry.
Now if you take this earlier quote as me being overly protective, rude or abrasive, maybe I'm just trying to tell you that I will treat you as I wish to be treated, so how about we start from that point ?

Quote:
as I stated before Door to door salesmen, IN GENERAL, are legit
How about some stats to back that up ? Out of 10 door to door salesmen in my neighborhood, are 8 of them legit ? 6? And as Dwight originally stated, his guys had no uniforms, signage or business cards to boot, so just exactly how was he supposed to give them a ring when he needed them ? Doesn't really sound on the up and up to me, but I'm a grumpy old fool.

What are the other dudes up to,even if it is only 1 out of 10 ? I hope none of us ever has to say we wish we could have a chance to do it over when we screw it up.

And people that know me well (and the only one posting here that does is Dwight55) know that I am not fighting a one man war against humanity, I'm just fighting the ones that mean to do any of us harm. How many of you can truthfully claim that your neighborhoods are getting better ?

Remember the part about better to be safe than sorry ?
Pyzon is offline  
Old October 6, 2009, 11:16 PM   #40
Terry A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Location: Washington, Pa
Posts: 757
[QUOTE][/QUOSeptember 30, 2009, 12:38 PM #1
Dwight55
Senior Member


Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,575 Strangers at the door

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, out in the driveway, doing a little fall PM around the old place; a car drives up in the driveway. Two younger guys inside, both smiling and as they got within about 50 feet, both did the old "Hi Ya" hand wave.

Not having my glasses on, I didn't recognize them as strangers at first, and when I did, . . . it was too late. They were basically at my feet with the passenger getting out and coming around the car.

They were "Carpet Cleaning Reps" and were "in the area" to drum up business. It was all I could do to tell him we didn't have carpet, didn't need his service, and "No" they couldn't come in and look to see if they could offer any other services.

No gun, no cell phone, no dog, and my wife on the driveway beside me. I thought for a few long seconds that I was going to have to go to war with both of them to get them to leave. When they left, no business card, no business name on the car, just a "call us if you need us" remark and out the driveway.

I'm carrying more now than I did last week.

Just wanted to thank you guys for the chatter we've shared, . . . and the heads up I got from it, . . . a few years ago they would have been in the house, . . . and heaven only knows where that would have gone. My spidey sense has been tingling on and off ever since they left the driveway.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran
TE]



Good post Dwight. And interesting responses all thru this thread.

Seems like in most places nowadays, it's better to err (spelling?) on the side of caution. It's nice to be able to trust everyone, but it's not always the right thing to do.

"No gun, no cell phone, no dog, and my wife on the driveway beside me."....
Yikes! I think if we're honest, all of us have been caught off guard at one time or another while enjoying some down time in condition white.

Very glad everything was OK with you and yours!
__________________
2 Thes 3:16 "Now may the Lord of peace Himself continually grant you peace in every circumstance. The Lord be with you all! "
Terry A is offline  
Old October 7, 2009, 03:48 PM   #41
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,969
Quote:
Yeah, over 5 bucks a pound depending on cut.
Not for a bull, steers maybe, broke down cows and old bulls go to the grocery store meat counter. We raise Angus here
markj is offline  
Old October 7, 2009, 08:31 PM   #42
Lee Lapin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 1,238
The lady we got our last two puppies from has a sign on her front gate. It says

SALESMEN WELCOME!

Dog food is too expensive...

lpl
__________________
Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order!

Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.
Lee Lapin is offline  
Old October 7, 2009, 08:59 PM   #43
Beentown71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,525
Nice sign. Picking up my new pup for training this week

Beentown
__________________
Μολὼν λάβε

Time for the Mall Ninja list:
Beretta 92fs, Springer XD9, High Standard Model HB, RRA bull bbl...aw heck with it time to go plink
Beentown71 is offline  
Old October 7, 2009, 09:01 PM   #44
ritepath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 955
Back in the summer my bosses uncle 70yo, was out in his yard doing yard work when a out of state car pulls into his drive. Two guys get out and start to explain they're in the area looking for antiques and such, stuff like old WWII helmets ect. He replied he didn't have anything for sale. One of the guys said let's go inside and take a look around. At that point he reached into his front pocket and printed a 38 and told them they weren't going into his house. They decided to get back in their car and head down the road. LOL

You really never know about people...
ritepath is offline  
Old October 8, 2009, 03:27 PM   #45
Pyzon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2009
Posts: 274
Here's something I have used a couple of times when the opportunity was right for identifying legit door to door types. Using a cellphone or other camera, (whether it even works or not) act like you are taking a picture of the "salesmen", hopefully to include the license plate on their vehicle.

You'll be truly amazed how quick the dirtballs will object to any record of themselves or their car and just how fast they decide they need to get on down the road. (Obviously this is only fun and useful before your BS meter is pegged to the point where self defense is a concern.)

Sometimes the best defense is a good sense of humor.
Pyzon is offline  
Old October 12, 2009, 09:25 PM   #46
mustang_steve
Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2009
Posts: 31
When I was younger, I tried being a door to door salesman (Vacuum Cleaners...I won't name the model, but it's full-metal and shares a name with a Video Game character that looks like a pink puffball). I got a LOT of crap from people. One time I offered up a 2-liter of Coke to anyone that listened to my pitch, no obligation at all. I had about a 5% success rate in general, and got assualted 3 times in a moth (one old man grabbed the 2-liter out of my hands and swatted me in the face with it). I would have been fine with a simple "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested, have a nice day" or "I already have a vacuum, thanks". Honestly, people have forgotten manners. I'm always respectful of the homeowner when I knocked on their door...if it was a bad sales week, I may ask them if I can leave a card in the screen door or mailbox if they change their minds...but I always thought about how they feel.

Honestly, real door-to-door people will have solicitor permits from the city, they'll often be very polite....of course they're aggressivly pushing their product, but they should never "ogle out" the people's stuff. When I was in a house, I just checked out the carpet and looked for evidence of pet ownership, since part of our sales pitch was how much pet dander the vacuum could pick up.

I did do pretty decent on sales, but I got out of it in 4 months since most of the salespeople were obviously shady...some of them selling while high, others practically forcing themselves into the house. Anything for a sale, ethics be damned. I simply didn't want to be associated with these pests any more.

It helps to see how a real salesman thinks to know what to expect from real salesmen.

A few years ago, my neighbors had a few fake salemen force their way into the apartment. They were selling some bogus citrus cleaner. They went to my place first, but I made it clear that the door stayed closed and I wanted them to leave me alone. In retrospect I should have noticed their clothing wasn't on par with sales, and should have called them up and told them to not answer.

Door to door salemen usually dress pretty decently....even if it's a cheap item like a citrus cleaner, they should at least be in khakis and a tucked in polo, matching belt and shoes....business casual. When I was selling the vaccuums (high dollar item, around 2 grand), I was wearing a tailored shirt/slacks, matching dress shoes/belt. Dress on par with what you are selling, it adds to credibility, and most thieves simply won't spend that kind of time on this.

The other note, is real salesmen will have a polished sales pitch, and in general although somewhat pushy, should still be a polite pushy as well as confident and professional in attitude. If they are not, they're probably best to send on their way (an untrained newbie will usually get the hint and walk). If they refuse to, they're shady.
mustang_steve is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13597 seconds with 7 queries