The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 30, 2009, 11:38 AM   #1
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,566
Strangers at the door

Last week, out in the driveway, doing a little fall PM around the old place; a car drives up in the driveway. Two younger guys inside, both smiling and as they got within about 50 feet, both did the old "Hi Ya" hand wave.

Not having my glasses on, I didn't recognize them as strangers at first, and when I did, . . . it was too late. They were basically at my feet with the passenger getting out and coming around the car.

They were "Carpet Cleaning Reps" and were "in the area" to drum up business. It was all I could do to tell him we didn't have carpet, didn't need his service, and "No" they couldn't come in and look to see if they could offer any other services.

No gun, no cell phone, no dog, and my wife on the driveway beside me. I thought for a few long seconds that I was going to have to go to war with both of them to get them to leave. When they left, no business card, no business name on the car, just a "call us if you need us" remark and out the driveway.

I'm carrying more now than I did last week.

Just wanted to thank you guys for the chatter we've shared, . . . and the heads up I got from it, . . . a few years ago they would have been in the house, . . . and heaven only knows where that would have gone. My spidey sense has been tingling on and off ever since they left the driveway.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 12:01 PM   #2
LHB1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,545
Dwight,
Glad you made it thru the situation safely. As another old timer with lots of birthdays behind me, I am more and more concerned about such seemingly innocuous encounters. My wife thinks I overdo it by carrying protection at all times but it only takes once for things to go wrong and then all your wishing won't undo the harm. Better safe than sorry is just good sense to me.
__________________
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
LHB1 is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 12:48 PM   #3
TEDDY
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2006
Location: MANNING SC
Posts: 837
Safe than sorry

yrs ago you could go out and leave the doors unlocked the lawn mower on the side now you have to be constently on the alert.and it will get worse.
more people more criminals.just a matter of statisticks.and the breakdown of the court system.
TEDDY is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 03:19 PM   #4
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,556
Quote:
I'm carrying more now than I did last week.
Good for you, Dwight. I try to carry at all times, now, and am always armed on my property, south of Detroit. It appears I'll be getting out of here in the next year or so, depending of course on sale of existing house, but it can't come too early for me. Even while working outside, I remain armed.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 03:41 PM   #5
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 8,039
I've heard of several scammers around here doing similar things. Sometimes one or two of these "gypsies" comes to your door, while the others sneak around to the back of your house while you are preoccupied trying to "nicely" tell the folks at your door to get lost.

I've learned to say no, be rude, abrassive, and down right mean and nasty to get rid of folks who have no business stepping foot onto my property. Kids who live in my neighborhood and are required to go door to door peddling this or that are the exception and are treated nicely and with respect - I'll generally support them, even though I don't really like funding their public schools with donations.
Skans is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 03:50 PM   #6
markj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2005
Location: Crescent Iowa
Posts: 2,969
Do you always feel threatened when someone you do not know talks to you? Used to be a friendly gesture to say howdy.

Some guys was selling meat out of their truck a few years ago, had a note about it from the deputy so I knew they were not legit, they pull in ask me if I wanted like 10 lbs of steak in a box for like 12.00 a lb. I run em off but did not feel threatened at all by them 2 guys.

The weapon is to protect you from harm, not to be used to run off folks, you may get in trouble if you do that.
markj is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 04:15 PM   #7
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 8,039
Do you always feel threatened when someone you do not know talks to you?
I don't know if this was directed to me or not, but in response: Out in public, no I don't feel threatened when someone I don't know comes up to me and talks to me. At home, I do feel some apprehension when certain folks come around that obviously don't look like they belong in my neighborhood knocking on my door. Obviously I didn't invite them, and my requirement to interact with them may range from a minor annoyance to genuine concern.

Used to be a friendly gesture to say howdy.

I know my neighbors and they or their kids are always welcome. FWIW, I've never run anyone off my property with a gun. I just get a little ornery with pushy salesmen every now and then.
Skans is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 04:24 PM   #8
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
I know how you feel. A couple of weeks ago a scrawny kid in clothes all too big for his size was "selling magazines" and wanted a check for a subscription. I promptly loaded EVERY gun in my apartment and strapped my Sig to the small of my back for the next few days. A little bit of apprehension and being prepared for something that never happens is much better than not being ready for it.
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 04:44 PM   #9
scottaschultz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 392
Quote:
TEDDY wrote: "yrs ago you could go out and leave the doors unlocked the lawn mower on the side..."
I tried that and those darn kids still won't cut my lawn!

Scott
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders!" Ted Nugent
scottaschultz is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 04:46 PM   #10
comn-cents
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
Glad that the situation didn't turn bad. Thanks for sharing and making me feel less paranoid about having loaded guns all over the house and at least on one me all the time. I've had people try to see if they can come into the house before and I just say "my pitbull doesn’t like people" they can't get out of there fast enough.
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 04:49 PM   #11
armsmaster270
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,948
My guns are never unloaded.
__________________
http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/
Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.
armsmaster270 is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 04:51 PM   #12
Pbearperry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 283
More than not I am carrying my S&W 340PD in my pants pocket or in a fanny pack.I even carry it inside my home when our main doors are opened and only the screened doors are locked.As far as I am concerned,gone are the days when most folks could be trusted.
Pbearperry is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 05:11 PM   #13
Willie Lowman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2009
Location: Uh-Hi-O
Posts: 2,474
Food for thought.

If you have guns loaded "all over" your house, you have made those guns ready for use to anyone who puts their hands on them.

As Skans mentioned, sometimes someone will engage you
Quote:
while the others sneak around to the back of your house while you are preoccupied
In some of these situations it would be possible for these home invaders to be armed with your guns. That you loaded and left unsecured.

Before you waste any time typing a response about how that couldn't/wouldn't happen to you, try to think about some new and exciting ways that someone could gain access to your home and take everything you have. I bet there is a junkie out there thinking about how much heroin they could get for your pre-loaded guns... Well, minus the bullets it took to murder you and your wife... Then think about how you could prevent them from getting what you worked for.

A gun in your holster is worth 2 in the corner. Or something like that.
__________________
"9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens
Willie Lowman is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 06:24 PM   #14
robhof
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 16, 2007
Posts: 708
robhof

One of the instructors in our CCW class explained that the safest way to have a loaded gun in the house, is on you. No children or strangers can get to it without you knowing and it's in easy reach in case of a problem.
robhof is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 07:19 PM   #15
Pyzon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2009
Posts: 278
My driveway is about 1/4 long, and if you get to my house you already passed a sign that forbids soliciting as well as trespassing. Too bad it
Pyzon is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 07:48 PM   #16
Pyzon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2009
Posts: 278
Don't know what happened but here is what I meant to say..

Too bad that it has come to the point that it is tough to trust anybody at your door or in your drive, but there are really not very many legitimate door to door salesmen these days.

If you claim you didn't see my "please leave me alone" sign (18"X24") then I will give you a chance to explain your intent, but I expect a quick and honest answer or things are going to get very blunt and maybe rude in a hurry.

Long ago I grew weary of dirtball bull$hit salesmen coming around simply to case the joint to determine the level of security so they can send their pals back later to do the dirty work. And yes, that is a common practice in use all over the place to get a close look inside your home or garage according to the local sheriff. Sometimes they ask if they are at the "John Smith" or whatever home, or if you are the one with the riding mower for sale or something equally bogus. If nobody answers the door, they keep looking around for an easy score.

Trust nobody is the rule of the day, sorry if you are selling candy bars for the marching band, but my school taxes are already far too high for the quality of the product being produced, so go away.

But I rarely carry when I'm home, so far. When that becomes necesssary I'm moving to the mountains for good.

Call me an ass if you want. You won't be the first.
Pyzon is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 08:03 PM   #17
TMUSCLE1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2009
Posts: 174
Pyzon...you aren't the only one that feels this way. I try to be courteous to my neighbors and young kids, but door to door salesmen, and others are not welcome. You just can't trust people these days, my neighborhood(the one I grew up in) has slowly been having more and more small crimes. My girlfriend won't even answer the door if she is home alone and I applaud her for it.

You can also call me an ass...won't be the first time.
TMUSCLE1 is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 11:42 PM   #18
Trashcan-man
Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: North FL
Posts: 76
I've read a lot of threads like this, specifically speaking about door to door salesmen and the like. I have to say I'm getting a little tired of seeing how all door to door salesmen are criminals blah, blah blah blah. I did it for about 2 years. I didn't do it because I liked it, I didn't do it to "case" anybody's house for a later burgurlary(sp?), I didn't even do it because I wanted to annoy people. I did it because it was another job that I could do in addition to my first job without too much trouble, my family had fallen on hard times and needed money. People treated me like sh!t, I got yelled at, spit on, threatened and I spoke to the police, on average, 1 to 2 times A DAY. I didn't do anything wrong, occasionally I would miss a faded or hidden "no trespassing" sign and when informed I would appologize and leave as quickly as possible. I'm not saying that every door to door salesman is a good guy, I'm sure that there are bad people that choose to do it, just like there are bad people in every single other profession on earth. I'm just saying they aren't all bad. BTW I'm no criminal, I work for a police dept as a dispatcher, and will be going to the academy next year. For my job I had to go through a polygraph, in depth background check and a psych eval.
I'm not saying that you should let these people inside your house to play with your children and look at your guns and jewelry. When one comes to my door I politely refuse, if it's hot out I will offer them a bottle of water. Most of the time they are extremely grateful to not be treated like sh!t and some have even given me some really good deals on whatever they were selling, way better than anything I ever found in stores.
All of you who keep saying that they wish things were like they used to be. Maybe you should change your own attitude, treat others like you wanna be treated, you'd be suprised how many people aren't out to take your stuff or hurt your family.
Pyzon - did your local sheriff have a source for his info. I've never ever heard of criminals using this method to pick a target, not saying it's not true, but I prefer to see stats when talking about this kind of thing.

Dons flame retardant suit and helmet. Picks up fire extinguisher and marshmello on a stick.
__________________
Pepsi is the anti-christ - Me

Omnem dimittite spem, o vos intrantes - The Devine Comedy
Trashcan-man is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 01:32 AM   #19
timebandit
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2009
Posts: 1
I'm ashamed to say it now...

... but when I was a teenager, me and a couple of my friends used to case houses in exactly this way. We would pose as kids selling something for school with an old sales sheet that we got from school, or say something like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that this was Jesse's house. Do you know where the Robinson's live?" If they weren't home, sometimes we broke in; a few times we went back later. We weren't drug addicts, crazy, or anything like that: just some ******* kids doing whatever we could get away with. I'm not proud of it and I now have a wife and children and completely understand how the invasion of privacy makes you feel and the anger associated with having something that you worked hard to pay for taken from you (I also recently had a few things stolen off of my carport; karma, I guess ). I'm not recommending that you should be paranoid, just that you should be careful.
timebandit is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 01:48 AM   #20
Trashcan-man
Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: North FL
Posts: 76
I agree on careful. Like I said, I'm not reccomending that you allow these people full access to your house and family. Just saying that they aren't all criminals as some would believe and that a little kindness can go a long way.

I do find it interesting that you used this method to scout houses to break into. Did you ever go back to a house that you had spoken to the homeowner at? It just seems to me that the homeowner would remember the kid that was at his house the day/week/month before it was broken into and you would very soon become a "person of interest" in a police investigation.
__________________
Pepsi is the anti-christ - Me

Omnem dimittite spem, o vos intrantes - The Devine Comedy
Trashcan-man is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 04:59 AM   #21
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,161
It is a shame when you have to think about people coming to your door with a combative mindset.

Yet, if you do NOT, you are placing yourself--and your loved ones--in the hands of strangers.

Most, if not all, TFL members who have read my posts know that I am a LEO. I live out in the country, on some fairly nice property. Took me a long time to get there.

You will NOT find me outside of my home, on my own property, without at LEAST one handgun on my person.

There's no mistake--anyone who drives on my property has to come down a 125 yard driveway that goes nowhere but my house. So, when they turn off the road, I know they're coming. People I know are greeted. The ones I don't know are greeted too--but in a much more guarded fashion, and when I contact them, I have my hand in my pocket--on a G27.

Once my wife was out working on her plants. A car came on the property. She started talking to the people in the car, knowing I was in the house--and also knowing that I was covering her. The people in the car did not know that they were in the sights of an AR15, with many spare mags close by. (They were LDS, by the way.) Since then, if someone comes up the drive, she will immediately come into the house. We won't make that mistake again.

To all of the good people who post on this board, remember this well: Being unprepared is a mistake you might get to make only ONCE. "Si vis pace, para bellum"
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 06:28 AM   #22
Dannyl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Cape Town - South Africa
Posts: 627
dealing with strangers at the gate

Hi,
I live in a place where having a 5,6 and even 10' wall around your house is totally normal (mine is 5'). in some places it is topped with razor wire or electrical wires.

As much as it is nice to be polite and welcoming to people, criminals are so abundant that one simply has to find ways of keeping strangers at bay, before it is too late (as when they are too close or where they are in you home). Many of them start off with a "normal" approach as a sales person, some even in the guise of being social workers (they target elderly people) and are often very well dressed and polite, until it is too late.

My answer to that is to always have a firearm close.My dog barks at anyone she does not recognize as soon as he is close to my wall or gate, which Strangers are greeted politely, but asked to state they business, and only when I have a good reason do I get close to them for a futher conversation, or open the gate to let them in.

What is also quite prevalent here are a number of companies that offer services such as armed-reponse & paramedics. my house alarm is monitored by one of them, witha radio link. a press of a button on a "remote" key will immediately
(and silently) raise the alarm, causing them to dispatch a patol and notify the police.

If this is a service that is available in your area, you may want to think about it. (providing the service is as good as they claim to be)

Brgds,

Danny
Dannyl is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 11:32 AM   #23
Pyzon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2009
Posts: 278
Quote:
Pyzon - did your local sheriff have a source for his info. I've never ever heard of criminals using this method to pick a target, not saying it's not true, but I prefer to see stats when talking about this kind of thing.
Trashcanman-At the time I was informed of this popular casing technique I was watching the sheriff's guys spread fingerprinting powder all over the house after losing over $5000 worth of my stuff that was probably converted into $200 cash at a fence (or flea market entrepreneur), but again, that's what the detective said, but he was probably totally full of hooey. Statistics ? We don't need no stinking statistics, do we ?

Oh, and timebandit, what you did awhile ago was really $hitty, and I hope you are paying something forward a few years late when you get the chance.

Sorry you fell on hard times,Trashcanman, but if you expected to be met at the door with hugs and kisses, things are different today, as you found out.

Again, my point is, very few door to door salesmen exist today period, so what is so hard to accept about the bums rush you received ? I'm free to tell you to hit the road, or go to hell or whatever if you invade my privacy by assuming I will be glad to meet you.

I guess I see it sorta like when I am still hunting and you walk up on me, and when I "rudely" ask what the hell you are doing on my property you give me the bull$hit line about not seeing any No Trespassing signs when you stepped over the 4' fence topped with barbed wire to get to me.

Just because there is no sign does not equate to an invitation to come on in, does it ? I feel like it is not my responsibility to notify you that I wish to not be bothered by your sales pitch or message or propaganda, so get over being bothered by my attitude.

And for sure, you can count on me treating you as I wish to be treated, and I just want you to leave me alone, OK ? But the minute you are not in your yard, you're in somebody elses who is running that show, so get used to being mistreated. It's just how it is, friend. And it's getting worse. And I can handle it if you think I'm the @sshole because of it.
Pyzon is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 03:25 PM   #24
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,556
Quote:
Trust nobody is the rule of the day, sorry if you are selling candy bars for the marching band, but my school taxes are already far too high for the quality of the product being produced, so go away.
I'm sorry to say that's pretty much the way it is around here also. My brother lives on a lake, and he pays the same taxes as me. And considering what we're getting for the money, I've had it. My next home is about 200 feet from the road, and there'll be no question who's coming up for a visit. There'll also be security lights all over as there are on my present house.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 07:09 PM   #25
FireForged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 1999
Location: Rebel South USA
Posts: 1,186
The sad thing is that this is exactly how bad-guys case an entire neighborhood. Door to Door solicitors are just not common like in the good ole days of the 40-50 and mid 60's. Now a days I would be very suspicious of any door to door folks. The last time I had one here and I happened to be using electric clippers and didnt hear them pull up. They got rather close before I noticed them.

One stood in my drive way and the other wanted to talk to me on the side of the house. I said, lets talk out here in the front away from the barking dog. He said kool and we walked to the front yard. He looked at me oddly as I continued to walk up to their car and write down their license plate on my hand. He said "what ya doin".. I said I wasnt really interested in any services. They left and didnt stop and at single house other than mine. I thought the whole thing was odd and I doubt the license plate even went to that car but they knew I was suspicious.
__________________
Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...
FireForged is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14122 seconds with 7 queries